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New Glue + Applicator Setup


Original Post
Andrew Poet · · Central AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 161

Hello,

I have been looking at the Hilti HDM 500 dispenser for use with RE 500 epoxy from Rapbolting(.com). I plan on using this setup in desert climates where cure time may be a concern.

Before I pull the trigger on the Hilti dispenser ($80 before shipping), are there other cost-effective options I should consider? I would prefer to buy high(ish) quality gear so I don't end up replacing everything.

Secondary question: Where do you typically buy your glue and other consumables?

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15,897

Some climbers are happy with the Powers / Dewalt adhesive cartridge dispenser. For working hanging on a rope, you do want something with convenience features not found on a $5 - $10 cheap caulking gun. But those key convenience features are not rocket science.

I think you also want a piston hand-pump / dust blower like the one by Powers / Dewalt.
And keep in mind that you want some extra _nozzles_ for your glue cartridges.
. . . (mysteriously not always sold by the same distributor with your favorite glue).

- > ? Do the nozzles need to specific for the manufacturer, or can you use any half-inch nozzle with any 9 oz glue cartridge ?

(except for the dust blower piston perhaps?), It's possible to purchase everything from Home Depot. The Simpson ET adhesive at Home Depot I've heard is fairly slow-drying (which is what I prefer) -- many HD locations have the 9 oz cartridge, some have the 22 oz. I think can often find Red Head A7+ which might be faster-drying (if that's what you want).
Many climbers seem to prefer Dewalt / Powers AC100 Gold adhesive (not at Home Depot or Lowes).

My experience ordering from other than Amazon or purchasing at the local Home Depot in St George UT . . .
all the climbing-specific distributors I've tried recently have been unreliable for inventory and/or shipping.
. . . (I have not recently ordered from RapBolting, and when I did the address mistake was due to myself, and they resolved it quickly and reasonably on their end).

Ordering thru non-climbing-specific Zoro.com was reliable for inventory and shipping -- but they did not have in their catalog all the items that I wanted.

Of the climbing-specific ...
Team-Tough.com has been very _responsive_ in handling cases where their inventory was off (because of delays in importing from Germany), sometimes working with me to modify my order, and then reliable in shipping what they do have or when they get it.
. . . (So now there are Bolt Products twist-wire glue-ins A316 Stainless from Germany installed on some delightful Utah sandstone pitches. My local partner liked that he didn't need to use a special tool for tapping them into the hole).

If you do choose to order from the climbing-specific distributors, I advise "nudging" them every step along the way with phone calls or emails:
Did my credit card work? Which items that I ordered do you actually have in stock, or when are you getting them?
Exactly what address are you shipping to? By what service? What's the tracking number?
Why haven't I heard anything for three days?
Do not assume anything.
. . . (I will not say publicly who is the very worst on inventory and shipping and responsiveness, but it's a name you'd recognize).

I think there's a reason most of these guys are not Amazon third-party-resellers: They'd get cut to pieces on User feedback star ratings.

Ken

Andrew Poet · · Central AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 161
kenr wrote: Some climbers are happy with the Powers / Dewalt adhesive cartridge dispenser. For working hanging on a rope, you do want something with convenience features not found on a $5 - $10 cheap caulking gun. But those key convenience features are not rocket science.

I think you also want a piston hand-pump / dust blower like the one by Powers / Dewalt.
And keep in mind that you want some extra _nozzles_ for your glue cartridges.
. . . (mysteriously not always sold by the same distributor with your favorite glue).

- > ? Do the nozzles need to specific for the manufacturer, or can you use any half-inch nozzle with any 9 oz glue cartridge ?

(except for the dust blower piston perhaps?), It's possible to purchase everything from Home Depot. The Simpson ET adhesive at Home Depot I've heard is fairly slow-drying (which is what I prefer) -- many HD locations have the 9 oz cartridge, some have the 22 oz. I think can often find Red Head A7+ which might be faster-drying (if that's what you want).
Many climbers seem to prefer Dewalt / Powers AC100 Gold adhesive (not at Home Depot or Lowes).

My experience ordering from other than Amazon or purchasing at the local Home Depot in St George UT . . .
all the climbing-specific distributors I've tried recently have been unreliable for inventory and/or shipping.
. . . (I have not recently ordered from RapBolting, and when I did the address mistake was due to myself, and they resolved it quickly and reasonably on their end).

Ordering thru non-climbing-specific Zoro.com was reliable for inventory and shipping -- but they did not have in their catalog all the items that I wanted.

Of the climbing-specific ...
Team-Tough.com has been very _responsive_ in handling cases where their inventory was off (because of delays in importing from Germany), sometimes working with me to modify my order, and then reliable in shipping what they do have or when they get it.
. . . (So now there are Bolt Products twist-wire glue-ins A316 Stainless from Germany installed on some delightful Utah sandstone pitches. My local partner liked that he didn't need to use a special tool for tapping them into the hole).

If you do choose to order from the climbing-specific distributors, I advise "nudging" them every step along the way with phone calls or emails:
Did my credit card work? Which items that I ordered do you actually have in stock, or when are you getting them?
Exactly what address are you shipping to? By what service? What's the tracking number?
Why haven't I heard anything for three days?
Do not assume anything.
. . . (I will not say publicly who is the very worst on inventory and shipping and responsiveness, but it's a name you'd recognize).

I think there's a reason most of these guys are not Amazon third-party-resellers: They'd get cut to pieces on User feedback star ratings.

Ken

Thanks for the response Ken! The bolts would not be placed while hanging on a rope, so I could probably get away with a cheaper gun with less features.

I haven't seen as much discussion about the Simpson ET adhesive compared to A100, but the data sheet seems reasonable. Does anyone have first-hand opinions on Simpson ET HP?

Maximilian Tagher · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 65

Rap Bolting previously sold both the HDM 500 and the older MD2000 applicator, and they said they recommended the MD2000 over the 500 for climbers (I have the 2000, not the 500, so can’t confirm this).

You can get the MD2000 applicator for much cheaper, maybe like $45 or so on eBay.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15,897
apoet wrote:

The bolts would not be placed while hanging on a rope, so I could probably get away with a cheaper gun with less features.

Huh? Using a hoist truck?

Anyway trust me: Pay at least $20 for your glue applicator.

. . . (and please do get a piston hand pump / dust blower -- or a compressed air can?
. . . . . you really do want to get all the dust out of the hole for the sake of the climbers
. . . . . who are going to have to trust the bonding of your glue while having no way to verify it).
Taylor Spiegelberg · · Lander & Sheridan, WY · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1,501

Instead of spending a lot on the powers hand pump that's super bulky, pick up one of these and attach your blow tubing that you may already have! You can get them at most dollar stores.

https://www.amazon.com/Qualatex-Hand-Held-Air-Inflator/dp/B006IBAK5U/ref=sr_1_7?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1548126076&sr=1-7&keywords=balloon+pump

eli poss · · Durango, Co · Joined May 2014 · Points: 523
kenr wrote: (I will not say publicly who is the very worst on inventory and shipping and responsiveness, but it's a name you'd recognize).
$5 says it's fixe. 


Andrew Poet · · Central AZ · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 161

Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up with a ~$25 caulking gun (heavy but sturdy) and a couple of tubes of Simpson Set XP from Home Depot.

I'm looking to buy a blower tomorrow to replace my old blow tubing. I'll update after placing some practice bolts in my yard...

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Please don't forget to brush the borehole in conjunction with air blowout. Several times until clean. Confirm the correct size and bristle type per manufacturer

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15,897

yes Brush.
. . . (I was focusing on stuff that makes glue-ins different from mechanical wedge or sleeve bolts).

. . . (for that matter, really ought to start with a hands-on lesson for how to install glue-ins).

Never heard of worrying about manufacturer specs for brushes.
You mean the mfgr of the bolt? or the mfgr of the brush?

I always thought just used 10mm or 3/8 inch brush for a 3/8 inch hole,
1/2 inch brush for a 1/2 inch hole.
Then I saw somebody selling a 3/4 inch brush saying you could also use if for 1/2 inch holes.

Ken

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490

One hardware manucturer specifies the bristle diameter but only sells one size for all hole sizes, the rest of us just use a brush that cleans the hole!

M Hanna · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Too small a brush does not clean the hole well. Just wanted to make sure an equipment list includes it.

ANGUS WIESSNER · · Denver Colorad · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,165
power brush can brush with drill powers sell SDS adapter 
apoet wrote:
 
Bosch blow out bulb Amazon
rap bolting pump light and cheap!
Hello,

I have been looking at the Hilti HDM 500 dispenser for use with RE 500 epoxy from Rapbolting(.com). I plan on using this setup in desert climates where cure time may be a concern.
Before I pull the trigger on the Hilti dispenser ($80 before shipping), are there other cost-effective options I should consider? I would prefer to buy high(ish) quality gear so I don't end up replacing everything.

Secondary question: Where do you typically buy your glue and other consumables?

Re 500 is no longer around now its Hilti HY 200 R Anchoring Adhesive with red cartridge sold separate 

Hilti in Denver sells the glue and you dont have to worry about the expiration date vs buying online.

Agree with pump for blow out rap bolting sells a good one for around 12 dollars vs hilti 50 dollar bigger one.

hilti option is the best but might be overkill for stainless ac 100 gold works great also but you gotta move quick or stock up on nozzles

I just picked up a hilti set up for equipping canyoneering and climbing in the tropics so if you have any questions let me know.

Titanium glue ins!
 
ANGUS WIESSNER · · Denver Colorad · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,165
Maximilian Tagher wrote: Rap Bolting previously sold both the HDM 500 and the older MD2000 applicator, and they said they recommended the MD2000 over the 500 for climbers (I have the 2000, not the 500, so can’t confirm this).

You can get the MD2000 applicator for much cheaper, maybe like $45 or so on eBay.

ya but you cant get a glue that fits it anymore according to hilti think they changed the cartridge size so you would have to upgrade to the current gun makes them more money correct me if im wrong but that is what the guy at hilti Denver told me. 

Maximilian Tagher · · San Francisco, CA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 65
ANGUS WIESSNER wrote:

ya but you cant get a glue that fits it anymore according to hilti think they changed the cartridge size so you would have to upgrade to the current gun makes them more money correct me if im wrong but that is what the guy at hilti Denver told me. 

Maybe it’s an upcoming change? They still have the HIT-RE 100 and 500 v3 on their website, and on amazon. It’s hard to find info about it but this website http://www.bennys.bz/hilti-products/adhesive/md2000-manual-dispenser/prod_179.html says the MD2000 supports the 11.1 oz RE 500.


I haven’t actually dispensed epoxy from my MD2000, but the RE-100 is a perfect fit in it for sure.
Francis Haden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2016 · Points: 9
apoet wrote: Thanks for the input everyone. I ended up with a ~$25 caulking gun (heavy but sturdy) and a couple of tubes of Simpson Set XP from Home Depot.

I'm looking to buy a blower tomorrow to replace my old blow tubing. I'll update after placing some practice bolts in my yard...

For some formulaic reason this epoxy gels and cures really slowly for an epoxy so perhaps worth considering tagging glued anchors as a warning the adhesive is not fully cured.

Set XP epoxy does not handle wet holes well either and at a 24 to 48hr full cure, the suggestions of other adhesives might be something to consider?

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612
apoet wrote: Hello,

I have been looking at the Hilti HDM 500 dispenser for use with RE 500 epoxy from Rapbolting(.com). I plan on using this setup in desert climates where cure time may be a concern.

Before I pull the trigger on the Hilti dispenser ($80 before shipping), are there other cost-effective options I should consider? I would prefer to buy high(ish) quality gear so I don't end up replacing everything.

Secondary question: Where do you typically buy your glue and other consumables?

I've used the Hilit MD-2500  gun and RE-500 for almost 10 years now.  I don't know much about the HDM 500 gun, but Hilti is usually quality and worth the money.    Personally, I love the longer gel time of the RE-500 V3.  No rush and I can drill, brush, blow, bolt and jug to the next placement without having the glue harden in the nozzle.   The cure time is about the same as several other glues, what's your concern?

Lately, Amazon.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Fixed Hardware: Bolts & Anchors
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