Learning from guides?

Hi Guys,

I need to learn from an experienced climber to help me progress in my climbing goals. Currently, I am working at the gym 3-4 times a week, trying to climb my current grade flawlessly, both up and down the route to work on my technical climbing ability. My partners are all about the same experience level as I am. I have a good fitness regimen going as well to complement my gym time to get the most out of my gym visits. 
 
I am looking at Ice Climbing this Jan/Feb, me and my current partner will hire a guide to take us out for this, but my question is: If I hire guides to take me on guided climbs, do the guides teach/share with you what they are doing, showing you the anchors that they are building, teaching you how to climb in the terrain that your in etc, involving you in the climbing process? Or is it that you hire a guide, and they literally just guide you through the climb, making sure you are safe, for example I'd climb and that's it, all other variables like ropework, route finding etc would be by the guide?  I guess maybe it depends on the individual guide? Or would I need to take a "class" or "lesson" for instruction?

Obviously climbing with a  guide would probably improve my climbing ability by getting experience outdoors actually climbing different routes/terrain, but i'm kind of looking for that one-on-one instruction.

Can you pay guides to give you lessons? I'm guessing these would be private lessons and very expensive.

I'm just looking for ways to amp up my learning - and I know this type of experience is a requirement to climbing safely. Any of you guys in the same position years ago? How did you get to where you are now? 

Thanks!

Colin  

A good guide will provide the services you ask for, assuming you are not stepping outside scope of practice or it's something liability prevents like leading. If they won't show you how to build anchors or coach you on how to transition on your own find another guide service who will.

Learning from a guide is a great way to go (though yes, expensive).  Be clear as you are booking that you are looking to learn skills, not just climb (sometimes outfits will have specific programs and guides tailored more towards a learning rather than just "get to the summit" experience).

Also see if there's any local clubs or groups that you could particpate in that have more experienced mentors you can climb with as well.

i found a trad leading/anchor building/self rescue course with the american alpine institute to be very helpful as a 100% gumby trad leader.  my climbing partner and i spent 2 days with a solid guide building anchors, following pitches, cleaning gear, practicing rope skills, and eventually leading some moderate routes.  it was pretty expensive, but i found it to be very valuable.  as a bonus, we got to follow some really classic routes.  

As others have indicated, ask the guiding company directly.  Heck, you're climbing gym might have options to help you get better climbing skill wise.  I've never hired a guide... but unless you took a course I would wonder how much could be learned in a session focused on "guiding" and not "lessons".

I appreciate your stoke, but some (most) of these questions you ask on here can either be found in existing forum posts and/or educational resources found online.

These questions in particular are questions you need to ask the guiding service you're considering. None of us know what they will offer and how they will interact with their clients unless an MPer happens to work for the company. Call them.

You could hire this group  ;-)  at least you know the weather will be comfortable.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116130118/vertical-adventure-guides-minimum-temperature

Cory F wrote: You could hire this group  ;-)  at least you know the weather will be comfortable.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/116130118/vertical-adventure-guides-minimum-temperature

Lol. I don't mind the weather I'll take what ever mother nature will throw at me. I worked in Northern Alberta on an Oil rig for two years and learned to "be comfortable being uncomfortable" outside!

Strongly recommend top roping by bob gaines. Be solid leading gym sport, learn your knots and find a solid mentor. If you are willing to drive and use your own rope, a lot of people would be willing to teach. I would learn rock before ice. 

North Col, you've not climbed outside at all yet, correct? And your first trip will be ice climbing? Nothing wrong with that, but do talk to your proposed guide about this. At the very least, you will likely have to buy boots, and they will need to work with whatever crampons are provided.

"Comfortable being uncomfortable" isn't the same as courting screaming barfies. Get advice about layers, gloves, etc. Don't expect to be "route finding" either. You will be on top rope, single pitch, most likely. Be prepared to stand around doing nothing, both you and your buddy, while the other is climbing. Have at least one belay jacket the two of you can trade off wearing (if you can share) to keep from freezing while waiting. It's doubtful you'll be belaying, first time out, but, again, talk to your guide.

Do have fun, though! Ice is an entirely different sort of style from rock climbing. I actually found it much easier, and really enjoyable. It's amazing how those hand and foot "holds" are exactly ​where you put them, lol!

Wear stuff that's colorful and you look good in, ice and pointy things makes anyone look seriously badass. You'll want to have those pics to remind you that you can do....what ever you decide to get after. The vast majority of climbers aren't nuts enough to even take a shot at it, so keep that in mind later, when stuff gets discouraging. 

Best, Helen

Any ACMG guide will be more than happy to teach you skills instead of just "guiding you" through the day.  Only problem is, there's not a lot of guides with ACMG certification in Ontario.  Best bet is to email them and ask them to set you up with a certified rock/alpine guide in the Toronto area: acmg@acmg.ca  

Be sure to use a certified guide though (ACMG is the only body in Canada that's recognized) and not someone who simply calls themselves a "guide".  

Old lady H wrote: North Col, you've not climbed outside at all yet, correct? And your first trip will be ice climbing? Nothing wrong with that, but do talk to your proposed guide about this. At the very least, you will likely have to buy boots, and they will need to work with whatever crampons are provided.

"Comfortable being uncomfortable" isn't the same as courting screaming barfies. Get advice about layers, gloves, etc. Don't expect to be "route finding" either. You will be on top rope, single pitch, most likely. Be prepared to stand around doing nothing, both you and your buddy, while the other is climbing. Have at least one belay jacket the two of you can trade off wearing (if you can share) to keep from freezing while waiting. It's doubtful you'll be belaying, first time out, but, again, talk to your guide.

Do have fun, though! Ice is an entirely different sort of style from rock climbing. I actually found it much easier, and really enjoyable. It's amazing how those hand and foot "holds" are exactly where you put them, lol!

Wear stuff that's colorful and you look good in, ice and pointy things makes anyone look seriously badass. You'll want to have those pics to remind you that you can do....what ever you decide to get after. The vast majority of climbers aren't nuts enough to even take a shot at it, so keep that in mind later, when stuff gets discouraging.

Best, Helen

Hi Helen,

I have spoken with he instructor for the outfit I want to go ice climbing with, they provide the boots and crampons, all technical gear. I just need to provide the winter clothing required, but I have a decent Marmot down Jacket and Goretx shell I'm planning to use, ive been working on my layering system the last few years as well so I have a good idea of what to bring. In regards to belaying or route finding at my first ice climb etc, its Ok if I don't get the chance to do it for my first time out I understand. I want to get the experience of climbing in these conditions with the equipment needed and just learn what I can. as much as I can when Im there. I have heard its hard on the calves though so I have included a killer calve routine into my leg day workout. Also I have started doing a lot of static hanging which I heard will benefit both ice climbing and rock climbing.  

In regards to belaying and waiting, Im OK with that too - I'll belay all day if I have to and be happy to lol, I have spent evenings at home, harness on, just pulling rope through my device to get the motion of belaying down to absolute 2nd nature. With my partner we do speed runs on a low grade, to practise keeping up with rope tension on TR  as well, moving my body for a good ol' dynamic belay as well as taking in rope to keep the right amount of tension between us.

I saw some tools online by "Furnace Industries" for practising with Ice tools, anyone use those before?

Also, thanks for your kind words and advice on my posts Helen! Your feedback and everyone else's is greatly appreciated.

Colin

Brett Millard wrote: Any ACMG guide will be more than happy to teach you skills instead of just "guiding you" through the day.  Only problem is, there's not a lot of guides with ACMG certification in Ontario.  Best bet is to email them and ask them to set you up with a certified rock/alpine guide in the Toronto area: acmg@acmg.ca  

Be sure to use a certified guide though (ACMG is the only body in Canada that's recognized) and not someone who simply calls themselves a "guide".  

Brett thank you for this - I am emailing them now!

Colin 

Colin, I've used the wood tools at a gym. They only work on a route that is set with jugs for the thing to slip onto. I enjoyed them, but I don't think they are particularly helpful for ice.

What I did do, and it was helpful for me, was to practice the rhythm of ice climbing. My gym had a Treadwall, so I'd hop on it, set to auto stop each move, and go slowly and in control. Just using jugs, as they came around, anything "on". It was set pretty overhanging, too, so I could easily hang from a straight arm. The drill was to have my arms staggered, move both feet up (a bit pigeon toed) on to holds that were on the same plane horizontally. Then, low arm up to grab next big jug, hang from straight arm and bent arm, move feet up. Repeat other side. Something like that. Dont remember, it's a year ago now. Butt out, knees bent, then standing up, moving an arm, hips in. Really different than climbing a regular route.

If you can walk up and down flights of stairs, and are capable of working a hammer above your head, you're fit enough to get started. It's technique, not strength. After all, if a 60+ old lady can enjoy it, you should nail this, right? ;-)

Best, Helen

For starters, if you can downclimb the grade flawlessly it’s not “your grade.”  It sounds like you might need to start pushing yourself more.

As far as your question, the answer would be: “yes, but...”. Most guides are happy to do whatever the client wants (as long as it’s safe), but your time is limited.  If you’re looking to climb something cool, do a guided trip.  The guide will probably show you some things, but no one I’ve ever known has hired a guide and been ready to do it themselves the next day.  If that’s what you want, take a class.  Manage your expectations, though; when I took an anchors class, we did no climbing, because the focus was on building anchors and practicing gear placements.  I found this much more useful than having someone drag me up some trade route, but YMMV.

I would imagine most guides would be willing to teach. I have a friend that often goes with a guide to work on her trad leads.

Your first time however, I would suggest to just focus on climbing as much as possible. Get some experience, find out how it feels and see if you actually like it.