Cross Country or Dynafit/Tech Binding Adapter for Mountaineering Boots

Has anybody ever made a hacked together cross country binding adapter. (Attaches to mountain boots with an auto-crampon style binding, and has an NNN sole and toe-bar).  I see the occasional post about people looking for old crampons to grind down and convert, I was wondering how they turned out.  This kinda thing: 

I know that universal flexi bindings exist, and silvrettas. And I know downhill skiing in mountain boots sucks. This isn't that question.

Also, one could imagine doing it with a dynafit style adapter as well.





Thoughts? ideas? Slander?

look up the CAST binding system for inspiration. 

Thanks for the responses. I've checked out Ramers, Silvrettas, Alpine Trekkers and CAST.

 Ramers are impossible to find and really old, Silvrettas are too heavy. Alpine Trekkers are too heavy and solve a different problem. CAST is also solving an entirely different problem (albeit very cleverly). I think the answer is most people just buy Silvrettas and just apply fitness to the weight difference, but I like the idea of  being able to use a modern super-lightweight AT binding with mountaineering boots on a very short (130cm) ski you could climb with. Or to easily pair mountaineering boots with BC-XC skis for longer approaches on rolling terrain and such. Anyway just a silly idea.

Some weight comparisons (per pair):
Silvretta 404's: 2044g
Silvretta 500's: 1528g
Averageish NNN BC Binding: 500g
Averageish Lightweight AT binding:  700g (though you can get race bindings substantially lighter)

Edited for typos.

To quote Colin Haley: Source Link

I'm stoked on my new approach ski setup, although it is a shame to mount such heavy bindings (Silvretta 500) on such light skis (Sportiva Syborg). Will someone ever make a good, lightweight binding for climbing approaches? All it needs is a solid connection on climbing boots, a solid ski/walk mechanism, and an efficient pivot location (the problem with some options)... Basically Silvretta 500's without any release capability. The new skimo boots climb decently, and I know tech-compatible mountaineering boots are coming (which is awesome) but there is definitely compromise in terms of climbing performance compared to a boot designed purely for climbing. The answer I always get is that it's too niche of a market...

Erhard Loretan supposedly had lots of mountaineering boots with custom tech inserts. This is supposedly being brought to mass market soon. That will be rad for sure, and suitable for lots of applications, but still not as good for climbing as pure climbing boots. If you look at the toe of a high-end climbing boot (such as from Sportiva or Scarpa), you'll notice that it is much narrower than the width of the pins on tech bindings. So, a climbing boot made to be tech-compatible has to have a differently shaped toe. Also, the metal of the tech inserts adds weight to the boot, and would, at least theoretically, make your toes colder (Because metal is a much better heat conductor than carbon/rubber/plastic/foam). I also definitely like to be able to lock my heal down, because I ski lots of "real" ski slopes in my climbing boots, not just flat glaciers. Don't get me wrong, tech-compatible climbing boots will be awesome - I just would love to ALSO have a good approach binding compatible with pure climbing boots.

Disclaimer, I’m a skier not a mountaineer. Would a AT boot like the Arcteryx Procline, TLT7, or Scarpa Alien still meet your needs as a mountaineering boot? If you’re only bootpacking steep snow or climbing easy ice I feel they’re more than capable.

We'll see. Got my first pair of "climbable" ski boots this year. Maybe that'll take care of it. This is just idle shoulder season speculation. 

I did a real Frankenstein job with some spliboard gear from voile and other hardware and old parts. It works but i could hardly recommend it. I’m satisfied only because it was way cheaper than finding silverettas and having them shipped, etc.

It’s mounted on risers that were already on the ski but they wouldn’t be strictly necessary. Not sure about downhill ability but they were awesome on the flat expanses of the Ruth.

The other thing I found that works actually are old BD 02 tele bindings. I found this by accident and have never heard of it otherwise. I used some rubber hose to pad the metal plate in the front that holds the duck bill of a tele boot. It worked without this but I was afraid that long term it might damage the front welt of my boots. This system wouldn’t work to ski in at all but again is great for skinning or some basic snowplow or sideslip descending. Was awesome again in AK.

While quickly searching to make sure I was correctly identifying the tele binding (and being shocked to see it offered for sale new still) the google machine revealed this (new?) offering from BD. Might be worth a look, it seems like it is completely universal. Maybe lacks downhill ability.
https://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-glidelite-universal-binding

The reason you haven't seen anyone make a lightweight new "Silvretta" is it's a tiny market....AND mountaineering boots are terrifying to ski in.

The most warranty and tinker-less option is that BD Glidelite binding + mountaineering boots. But you're essentially in a super flimsy tele rig on the way down. If there is actually some serious vertical to contend with the best option is just climb in AT boots (G5 is 900ish grams, TLT7 is 1000ish grams).

There have been some people who have modded Spantiks ( http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/it-is-about-time-tech-fitting-on.html). You can get some mountaineering boots into some Fritschi frame bindings. Honnold did that when he was in Alaska last year with Renan, there is a couple seconds of the video that shows it. But those "ski ins" were about 99 percent flat.

My brother cobbled together a pair of what you’re describing as the AT Binding Adapter above. It ended up being heavy, and I wouldn’t want to use it on my decent AT gear because the effective BSL ended up being so much longer than my AT boots that I’d have to be moving the heel pieces dramatically to swap back and forth. As others have said, Silvretta’s (sadly) are really just the way to go. Keep your eyes peeled, and you’ll find a pair of shitty skis with decent silvrettas mounted on them for ~$100 - $150.

If your ski approaches are flat e.g. fire roads, there's no reason to mount the Silvretta heel pieces.

Having spent enough time on a fatter ski with NNN BC bindings attached, I can say confidently that that's a terrible way to go. There's a reason they still make 3-pin bindings and leather boots for long ski tours, and it's not because retro looks cooler.

I could see a tech-toe adapter for mountaineering boots, but I just can't imagine anything being light enough to work without risking your boot popping out all the time. It only has to happen once to make you abandon them altogether.

As said above, find some silvrettas and mount them on a lightweight approach ski (mine have fishscales). You'll be happier.

Not that many people climb in 8000 meter boots, but La Sportiva's new Olympus Mons triple boot (not double) is pin-tech compatible for the approach!  That being said, it's a step in the right direction & maybe La Sportiva & Scarpa are hearing us when we say we'd like climbing boots that can be used with tech bindings! Who knows, maybe a Phantom Tech or G5 will be compatible with tech bindings in a year or two!

diepj that is awesome. I figured somebody must have done it.

Greg Miller - great point about effective BSL.

Norcalnomad - thanks for the link. There's a fair number of approaches in the northeast that are along snowmobile tracks without significant downhills, so it is no more terrifying than doing the same approach / descent in XC gear.

Gunkiemike - solid suggestion. I hadn't thought of that but duh.

Petsfed - that's too bad, I was hoping NNN-BC might do it.

AlpineIce - cool!

So yah, I'll probably end up with Silvretta's and/or climbing in AT boots like everybody else. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions!

Not my advert but ... some 400s for sale: https://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/topic/102268-silvretta-400-skialpine-touring-bindings-70/

Anyone remember the Marker bindings??? wildsnow.com/backcountry-sk…

check out this thread from a couple years ago. i was actually wondering if you could just throw in some dynafit inserts into the sole...

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/108780393/mounatineering-boots-and-tech-fittings

Spantiks + Fritschi freeride+ short skis were very manageable for resort conditions, but doesn't solve your weight problem.
I've been thinking of trying to frankenstein an old pair of crampons with tech fittings, but haven't stumbled across tech fittings for the right price yet, and for now I'll climb with ski boots if the skiing is the point and deal with the weight if ice climbing is the point.
The coldthistle post is good, here's the linked instructions for the mod,  http://polarvortexnj.blogspot.com/2016/03/modifying-la-sportiva-spantik.html

About the BD glidelights, looks like its's setup for the sole to bend. In fact in the manual it says "Binding should not be used with stiff-soled shoes" which seems to miss BD's target audience...

Rob Blakemore wrote: Has anybody ever made a hacked together cross country binding adapter. (Attaches to mountain boots with an auto-crampon style binding, and has an NNN sole and toe-bar).  I see the occasional post about people looking for old crampons to grind down and convert, I was wondering how they turned out.  This kinda thing: 

I know that universal flexi bindings exist, and silvrettas. And I know downhill skiing in mountain boots sucks. This isn't that question.

Also, one could imagine doing it with a dynafit style adapter as well.

Thoughts? ideas? Slander?

Sorry to revive a dead topic, but any news on this? Ive picked up an old pair of Ramer Model R's that look very similar to the design you have thrown together here and am considering adapting them by replacing the releasable toe-bar with a thinner gauge steel rod that will fit an NNN-BC binding, but flairs at the edges to accommodate the existing sockets on the Model-R. See link for details on the Ramer binding. 

Would never use for anything steeper downhill than a sledding hill, but would make skiing up glaciers to get to climbs a hell of a lot smoother 

Has anyone mounted tech Bindings on X-Country Skis? I am happy to Climb in Arcteryx Procline boots, im just wondering how effective tech bindings are on x country skis.

l think the Scarpa F3 is ideal ski boot for climbing.  A very light/tall AT boot with bellows and tech inserts. The lack of ankle flexion is a pain, but you can front point all day long without burning out your calves. A fantastic ski boot that climbs very, very well.  

Combine with minimal but strong Plum tech bindings on a light n fat bc ski w metal edges/fish scales. 

There a new F3s on ebay right meow. 

This boot is the shit.  I have em in 27.5, 28.5, and 29.5.

Sam Salwei wrote:

Has anyone mounted tech Bindings on X-Country Skis? I am happy to Climb in Arcteryx Procline boots, im just wondering how effective tech bindings are on x country skis.

i put a vertical toe against a pair of old classic skis for you, the holes are about as close to the edge as i would consider screwing in anything, maybe just over 3/8”. skis are all built differently to tolerate various bindings but i wouldn’t hesitate to drill up some beater xc skis if that’s something you’re interested in - it probably works fine.  i mean you’re not going to be going into no fall zones on skinnies, right?

Ski'alp used to make a mountaineering binding.  It was called the ULM (for "ultra light mountaineering")  

There was no release mechanism and it was really really light.  They had a lightweight, semi-flexible plastic plate that connected the toe and heel sections, and a flip-up climbing riser.  

They worked with any mountain boot with a pronounced toe and heel.  (anything that could take step-in crampons.)

They were never marketed to the general public, and were sold to guides.  You had to know somebody to buy them (probably because they didn't meet ski equipment standards?)  

They stopped production altogether after Ski'alp got bought by Petzl.

Here's a photo (far left)