Fine tuning layering system - softshell and parka

jg fox wrote:

"United States Patent 4,588,635 for "synthetic down" was filed and ultimately approved in May 1986."

You know what that product is today? 

Primaloft or otherwise known as synthetic insulation/synthetic down insulation.  Calling it synthetic down is still accurate because it mimics the qualities of down.

Even better to call it that to distinguish it from other synthetic insulations like fleece.

#Lawyered

jg fox wrote:

They lose loft if you wash them or compress them too much.  I had a synthetic down bag from 2001 that sat in the stuff sack for over a decade and it was fine when I pulled it out.  For a jacket, just store it correctly and don't wash it often.

I have my Atom LT from 2015, it is fine and still has more use left on it. Unless someone is a guide, it won't wear out that fast.

It may look ok, but if you were to test it the clo values are probably down 40% or more. 

I think it kind if weird you have to ask. Get a Peter Storm sweater.  

Gavin W wrote:

It may look ok, but if you were to test it the clo values are probably down 40% or more. 

Come to think about it, it really wasn't that warm wearing it in western Colorado this year.

Crap...

Gavin W wrote:

It may look ok, but if you were to test it the clo values are probably down 40% or more. 

Those theoretical numbers the guy on Backpackinglight measures are fine, but I don't think they're as meaningful as people make them out to be. 

It doesn't matter so much to me whether my jacket is "1x clo" warm or "0.6x clo" warm, what's more important is that it's as warm in the evening as it was that morning. It doesn't matter if I put it on while sweaty, got it wet, sliced it open racking an ice screw, whatever. Synthetic is more reliable in that sense, even if its ultimate potential is less. It's like the boring Toyota that gets you to work on time more often than the exotic sportscar. Down is really (really) awesome until something goes wrong.  

jdejace wrote:

Those theoretical numbers the guy on Backpackinglight measures are fine, but I don't think they're as meaningful as people make them out to be. 

It doesn't matter so much to me whether my jacket is "1x clo" warm or "0.6x clo" warm, what's more important is that it's as warm in the evening as it was that morning. It doesn't matter if I put it on while sweaty, got it wet, sliced it open racking an ice screw, whatever. Synthetic is more reliable in that sense, even if its ultimate potential is less. It's like the boring Toyota that gets you to work on time more often than the exotic sportscar. Down is really (really) awesome until something goes wrong.  

I agree, I own a few different synthetic jackets and they excel in certain applications. But after a few seasons of use, it's not as warm as it was when it was new. If it's still warm enough for what you're using it for, then that's great. Personally, I buy cheap synthetic jackets so that I can replace them after 2 years, since the warmth/weight level goes down.

Theory or not, I have noticed a drastic reduction in warmth of synthetic puffies after 3-4 seasons. I am typically out 2-4 days a week April-early October, so I may use mine more than others. Sleeping in my jacket at bivies and stuffing it to clip to a gear loop on route certainly don't help the matter, but I do leave them loose in the top of my pack and store hung in a closet.

I did a cursory glance at what is out there on the market right now, this active insulation craze is getting out of hand. Lots of manufactures aren't even offering a lighter synthetic that isn't highly breathable anymore. Best price for something not on sale that I see is the montbell thermawrap pro.