Stuff you don't NEED, learn from our mistakes

Christopher Smith wrote:

Around here the ethic on bolt only anchors is to save the wear on the bolts and rap off them.

Where?

  Plus if they aren't metolius rap anchors I could see that being very bad for a rope.

Sport anchors have chains or quick links or rap rings, not just bare hangers (except obviously for Metolious rap anchors, which I would rap off of since they're not designed for lowering). And regular bolt hangers are not designed to put the rope through and rap - only a fool does that, due to rope wear/damage, *if* they are actually able to pull it down. Are you saying that at your crag(s) the sport routes have bare hanger anchors? 

  Maybe your local crags just have cold shuts?

The only place I've encountered cold shuts are the older anchors in Owens River Gorge and Clark Canyon that haven't been replaced with Mussy hooks yet. No doubt there are other areas still with cold shuts, but I haven't climbed at those.

I hope my garbage can has enough room for everything MP told me I don't need.

JonasMR wrote:  "Buy the safest stuff you can, then sell it when you figure out you don't need it anymore," might be better advice.  That money spent doesn't have to all be wasted.  

This is dangerous advice to a beginner. No piece of climbing gear is “safer” than another and the last thing a beginner needs is a false sense of security. Learn how to use the gear you select whatever it may be. 

Solid gate carabiners.  Wire gates that aren't hoodwire style. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Where?

Sport anchors have chains or quick links or rap rings, not just bare hangers (except obviously for Metolious rap anchors, which I would rap off of since they're not designed for lowering). And regular bolt hangers are not designed to put the rope through and rap - only a fool does that, due to rope wear/damage, *if* they are actually able to pull it down. Are you saying that at your crag(s) the sport routes have bare hanger anchors? 

The only place I've encountered cold shuts are the older anchors in Owens River Gorge and Clark Canyon that haven't been replaced with Mussy hooks yet. No doubt there are other areas still with cold shuts, but I haven't climbed at those.

I mostly see them at Enchanted Rock, just two bare hangers (pretty sure all of them are metolius rap anchors though) is all you get on almost every anchor.  A few have a quicklink with some chain attached.  Most of the more local limestone sport does indeed have permanent sport anchors and of course you would lower off those.  There are a few sport routes on said limestone though with no sport anchors.

Also I tend to have to clean and rap even on these sport anchor routes more nowadays since I got into rope soloing.  I'll usually lead solo a route and setup a fixed line so that I can toprope solo it.  Then to clean it I have to take the 8 on a bight out of the fixed line and then rap and then pull my rope.

2. The common ethic in every sport area I've climbed is to lower off rather than rappel except for occasional rare instances, so all that stuff about extending the rap device and autoblocks is irrelevant. 

Always being lowered on bolts or chains is a bad habit and causes more wear on bolts and chains than needed. Not irrelevant at all. 

OrganicChemistry wrote:

Always being lowered on bolts or chains is a bad habit and causes more wear on bolts and chains than needed. Not irrelevant at all. 

If you want to start a lower vs rap debate, please for the love of god make a new thread and don't turn this one into a flame war.

eli poss wrote:

If you want to start a lower vs rap debate, please for the love of god make a new thread and don't turn this one into a flame war.

No debate, my statement was clear. 

OrganicChemistry wrote:

Always being lowered on bolts or chains is a bad habit and causes more wear on bolts and chains than needed. Not irrelevant at all. 

I'm not debating it either, from the standpoint of wear; the relative or perceived safety of one over the other is an entirely different debate that has been thrashed out regularly on MP and has no place in this thread. Regarding wear on the hardware, quite simply you are incorrect for 2018 (yes, some years ago it was a big debate - not so much now unless someone is clinging to 20 year old ideas). 

It is the ethic and fully expected at:

Red Rocks - John Wilder and at least one other local have posted this on MP multiple times

Skaha

Squamish

NRG

ORG - that is precisely why the old cold shuts are being replaced with Mussy hooks

Mt. Lemmon (at least when I was there, talking to a local developer)

All of Utah

Wild Iris

Ten Sleep

City of Rocks ID 

...and numerous others I've no doubt forgotten.

Loyd Wofford III wrote:

I see you don't want..... link cams

You mean splodey cams?

Graham Johnson wrote:

This thing: https://shop.epictv.com/en/slings/beal/dynaloop-83mm?sku=BEAS17_SLINGDYNL_120 

Instead of a nice, svelte, dyneema double length sling, this is is 120cm of 8.3mm dynamic rope that has been spliced into a loop. Bulky as fuck, heavy, doesn't do anything that a sling doesn't and the dynamic elongation of 120cm is pretty much nil.  I can't wait to lose it somewhere. 

If you want to pop it in a 1st class envelope to me I'll tie it into a mini quad and use it. 

Marc801 C wrote:

I'm not debating it either, from the standpoint of wear; the relative or perceived safety of one over the other is an entirely different debate that has been thrashed out regularly on MP and has no place in this thread. Regarding wear on the hardware, quite simply you are incorrect for 2018 (yes, some years ago it was a big debate - not so much now unless someone is clinging to 20 year old ideas). 

It is the ethic and fully expected at:

Red Rocks - John Wilder and at least one other local have posted this on MP multiple times

Skaha

Squamish

NRG

ORG - that is precisely why the old cold shuts are being replaced with Mussy hooks

Mt. Lemmon (at least when I was there, talking to a local developer)

All of Utah

Wild Iris

Ten Sleep

City of Rocks ID 

...and numerous others I've no doubt forgotten.

It’s pretty much the ethic in the Red now.  Muir Valley was pushing rapping for a while but I believe they’ve dropped that silliness.  I believe a few developers have posted on here in favor of lowering.

Adrienne DiRosario wrote:

This is dangerous advice to a beginner. No piece of climbing gear is “safer” than another and the last thing a beginner needs is a false sense of security. Learn how to use the gear you select whatever it may be. 

I think I was very clear that "safer" means "fails more gracefully".  You know full well that common user errors are a bigger deal with some setups than others.  But I applaud you for reiterating that no system is fool proof, that can't be said enough I suppose.

Looks like I hit a nerve with approach shoes. They are certainly useful on 4th and 5th class terrain. Thing is that a tiny minority of climbers are regularly approaching and descending that kind of terrain. Yet approach shoes seem to be worn by most climbers at crags these days. An old pair of shoes will work just fine. 

The longer I climb the more I realize that the outdoor apparel industry does a great job of making people feel like they need to buy stuff. 

In general you usually need a partner for roped climbing. If your partners have shared gear items try to hold off buying stuff until you have a little experience, know what you like and don't like, and are going out with other climbers who don't yet have gear.

Lockers-I've got a ton of old lockers gathering dust in one of my many haulbags (add this to the list as well). Buy a quality belay biner (I prefer something pear shaped) and maybe a couple for TR anchors/powerpoints if you like to use a cordalette and/or aren't climbing at spot areas where you just leave 2 draws on the anchor (if even that). I've worn through lockers, but this happens rarely now that I primarily belay with a grigri. Also, nothing says noob like showing up to the crag with 5 heavy autolocking biners. Even worse if you have the full fingered belay gloves and a figure eight. 

Protection-my hexes, tricams, ball nuts, big bros see only occasional use these days. If you don't climb regularly at a crag that requires them try to borrow them from a friend (or me since I have them all). Having lived and climbed all over the US I'd say you will probably get the most bang for your buck with a couple of tricams (pink and red? I think they have smaller now, but I've never used them).

Bail biners or those crappy old school symmetrical D biners that have the smallest gate opening ever-you'll acquire other peoples' bail biners soon enough that you can reuse. When buying biners for racking, to have spares, etc spend a few extra bucks and get something you'll actually want to use long term and won't be relegated to the extra gear pile.

Budget quickdraws- There used to be a lot of starter/budget quickdraws (the old OP draws with the blue nylon dogbones come to mind) on the market with crappy biners (notched gates, poorly sized, etc). These draws will not prevent you from climbing hard, but they are a pain to clean off steep routes, handle poorly, etc. Climb on your friends draws and then decided what you want-my recommendation is something with keylock biners that feels good in your hands. You could probably apply this to buying a rack of cams as well.

Hexes, you don't need hexes.  Unless you want to sound like a Christmas Tree being thrown down a flight of stairs as you're climbing.

. wrote:

rope bag, almost never use mine especially on multi pitch stuff, more useful if sport climbing or in gym, still not needed

...unless you're climbing in areas where you have mud (NRG), fine dust and sand (Skaha, Mt. Lemmon, Red Rocks), volcanic sand (ORG), etc.

Nate Tastic wrote:

Is it the rope bag or the tarp that came with the rope bag?

I’ve only ever bought integrated tarp/bag styles. 

Nate Tastic wrote:

Is it the rope bag or the tarp that came with the rope bag?

I'm a big fan of a good rope bag with integrated tarp. I think my favorite is actually a Mammut that came with a rope. It has two tie loops on opposite ends of the tarp. Tie one end to the red loop. Flake rope. Tie other end to the blue loop. Fold tarp around rope and stuff it all into the bag. Ready to climb right out of the bag at the next stop without endless coiling and flaking of the rope.