First Female Ascent. Should this be an actual thing?

Em Cos wrote:

30lbs of breasts? What porn-fueled delusional haze are you living in?

how tf am i supposed to know how much a breast weighs

dangoesclimbing wrote:

Here is a chart

Ladies, how about instead of being condescending and dismissive of the conversation you take the time to be patient and explain it? 

You thought this issue was going to be resolved in a single conversation? Wrong. You will eventually get equality but it will take time and patience. Maybe you shouldnt have to, but women's rights needs champions, not sarcastic brats. 

*At MP discussion table*

On FFFA's -

Men: okay explain what you mean and how this works?  We have every detail of a redpoint vs pink point vs send vs flash vs FFA vs FA  defined so lets discuss where this fits in.

Women: wow, your so ignorant I cant believe you

Men who 'get it': Wow I cant believe these men could even ask people to explain. How dare they question our new system. Insert condecending comment.

Look, if all we get is sarcasm and eyerolling when we ask questions then why do you think anything would change? Yall are going to have to explain this shit multiple times to multiple people. If that is too daunting then you don’t want it that bad.

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:

Here is what it comes down to - you can pick one. 

Exactly!!! this sums it up perfectly.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

This wouldn't even come up except that in climbing, women are as good or better than a lot of men. This lack of a gap...

I hope you are kidding.  Look at the number of men climbing 5.15 versus women.  Let's be honest here.

Adam Orton wrote:

Who cares. 

Uh...everyone asking?

dangoesclimbing wrote:

A question you can ask yourself about any topic before making an assertion about it...

wonderwoman wrote:

Infantilization and mansplanation all in one breath.  By saying that women will 'get equality' implies that you do not think women are equal and / or equality is yours to give.  

Let's start with the basics: Women ARE equal to men.

Just proving my point with the first statement.

Okay that is a good start. How are women equal to men? Can you qualify that statement? Is it just because you said so? Here is how I would do it - 

Women and men are EQUALLY CAPABLE of accomplishing and achieving the same things. But they aren't equal. I literally have different chemistry and biology than women.  

As for being equal in the workforce - I will always be able to pick up heavier things than you because evolution has given me different muscles than you. But you may be better at different things than me.

s.price wrote:

Agreed wonderwoman. We are equal. Based on that equality why do we not celebrate the majority of routes being established on the planet as FMAs?

Why should a first female ascent of an established climb be treated as something special? 

I'm not here to argue or mansplain anything. I ask this in an honest way.

Use of a derogatory term like mansplaining will not help in anyway. That would be like me saying you are just witchbitching.

1. You're welcome to hate the term mansplaining, but surely you can see the difference between being referred to as a "man" vs a "witch", and between a behavior being described as "explaining" vs "bitching".  More nuanced is the idea that certain behaviors that may seem equivalent on their surface do not have equivalent impact when there is a historical (and ongoing) institutional power imbalance. 

2. There is a difference between "being equal" in terms of inherent personhood and value, and "being equal" in terms of being actually treated equally by society. Saying "hey you're either equal or you're not, choose one!" Is a false choice because one can believe women are equal inherently but are not treated equally in society. 

wonderwoman wrote:

Perhaps.  But I will always be smarter.

Hahaha! Cheeky. Im pretty smart...ill let you have this one if you want it. But intelligence isn't inherent to gender...

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:

Hahaha! Cheeky. Im pretty smart...ill let you have this one if you want it. But intelligence isn't inherent to gender...

*I'm

*I'll

*Clearly.

My boobs weigh 19 pounds.

Back to the topic at hand - read OP's original article. Agree, FFA should not be 'a thing'. 

"If the top women climbers are interested in pushing the limits, I believe they should be spending more time seeking out their own first ascents. By following in men’s footsteps and seeking out FFAs, women are automatically setting themselves up to always be one step behind."

Are you fucking happy 20kn? You knew this would happen, why is an admin starting a thread that he knows is going to be a literal shit storm?

that guy named seb wrote:

Are you fucking happy 20kn? You knew this would happen, why is an admin starting a thread that he knows is going to be a literal shit storm?

Should we sweep the topic under the rug?

Well today we have a first ascent of 15a in France by Anak Verhoeven, who happens to be a woman. It will be interesting to see how the climbing media headlines their reports:

http://www.anakverhoeven.be/?p=2850

Tim Lutz wrote:

we prefer the term 'sausage fest'

and yes, since 11/9/2016 decisions about women shall be made by men, preferably white men

With a beard.

Why make a distinction  between men and women in climbing unles you automaticly  assume that women are inferior to men?

Dylan B. wrote:

Frankly, I don't care about any FA information except the date. You could drop all the men's names and it wouldn't bother me a bit. 

Respectfully disagree. Lot's of good reasons to know who did the FA. For example, 

If it's a Richard Rossiter FA, I know it will be well cleaned, reasonably bolted and probably a pretty good line. Same for Allen Nelson. Mark Anderson usually puts up pretty good lines. Too many others to mention.

Or, if it's a Kor route, esp if it's 5.9, then I know it'll be an adventure.

s.price wrote:

The fact that men are actually discussing this could be seen as progress. Not so many years ago most men would have just said "Who cares" inferring that since the accomplishment was by a woman it didn't matter. Probably a few boys on the forums that still feel that way.

It would be cool to see one of the women on this site provide a perspective on the questions 20kn asked in the OP.

 

Guess you missed Lena and I on page one...

Lol! H.