how not to build a toprope anchor

physnchips wrote:

The funny thing about you MP guys is that if the OP had posted the same picture in the context of him making the anchor and said something like, "Some buddies and I went TRing and I had a blast! I can't wait to go again." Everyone here would be like, "GTFO before you kill yourself or one of us." 

What's the point of lecturing a third party who's not here to listen or defend himself? Besides, that anchor looks just fine.

Alan Zhan wrote:

maximum force would be about 2x body weight assuming the top rope anchor acts like a pulley and neglecting any angular dependence

Actually, top rope anchors see more like 3-4x body weight.  When the climber falls, there will be some acceleration before the rope becomes tensioned.  So, some momentum is accumulated first, then deceleration.  Some tests from years ago showed 500-600 lbs and with some effort and lots of intentional slack, as high as 900.  Still relatively small loads for any properly rigged anchor.  

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

Hey Boulder people, explain this:

I can't see any knot in the sling.  It appears to be just sort of looped together.  If so, no redundancy on the sling.  

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:

Look fine to me. Overkill on the lockers.  Could slide it a little lower on the tree for less leverage.

Less leverage on a 12-15 diameter tree?  Umm.  Ok.

Greg D wrote:

Less leverage on a 12-15 diameter tree?  Umm.  Ok.

Obviously not needed for safety but I think the tree would appreciate it. Be nice to trees 

I am curious, though, as to what the fuck that is with the sling and also why none of the lockers were locked 

Greg D wrote:

I can't see any knot in the sling.  It appears to be just sort of looped together.  If so, no redundancy on the sling.  

missed that.  Yeah what is going on with that? 

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

Hey Boulder people, explain this:

Silly people. Obviously they own four dogs and only need to lock the biners once the leads are clipped. Sheesh.

OLH

You only need one strong bolt (in the system (edited)) to be safe.  PERFECT equalization is a myth (latest AAC study).  Anchor is redundant with no possibility of extension.  Non lockers are not ideal but OK (there is one).  Don't touch other people's anchors.  (Edited to add "perfect equalization" for clarity for beginners)

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

and tied an overhand knot around the tree 

Wtf indeed.

There is no overhand in that photo  

Eric Laursen wrote:

You only need one strong bolt to be safe.  

Say wha what??? One bolt isn't safe.  In most cases clearly yes but bad advice to be giving in online forums.  Too many unknowns with fixed anchors out in the field, weather, installation, corrosion, older bolts, etc thus getting into the habit of only using one bolt for an anchor is a really bad idea. 

My first top rope anchor was square knots on backpacking straps at dogwood. . . 

Whoever the guy was that told us we shouldn't be toproping on it . . . Sorry for the stink eye. 

Jaren Watson wrote:

He said "one strong bolt." Yes, that is safe. 

If that's the take away from the AAC article you are fucked.  

Mike Mellenthin wrote:

I'm shitty with knot names I never use. It's like the dude tied an overhand (I think) but then the tree was in the middle and the knot couldn't close. Does that have a name?

There's no name for that knot because there's no knot.

before the 3rd bolt at least

How to build a toprope anchor with no redundancy. The old bolts were 3/8 button heads that were both sticking out a half inch that were recently replaced....

^I find the extension limiting knots in that setup amusing, in a black humor kind of way.

As to the OP,  you could have found a more deserving setup to go all preachy about.

r m wrote:

^I find the extension limiting knots in that setup amusing, in a black humor kind of way.

They might jam in the carabiners holding the rope you know.

I think Greg is being literal and using definitions such as the following to differentiate between the thing on that tree and a "knot": 

Knots. Knots are used to form eyes or to secure a cord orline around an object, such as a package. In otherwords, the line is bent to itself. [secure being operative here]

Hitches. Hitches are used to bend a line to or around anobject, such as a ring, spar, or stanchion.

Bends. Bends are used to secure two lines together.

Chris Walden wrote:

Say wha what??? One bolt isn't safe.  In most cases clearly yes but bad advice to be giving in online forums.  Too many unknowns with fixed anchors out in the field, weather, installation, corrosion, older bolts, etc thus getting into the habit of only using one bolt for an anchor is a really bad idea. 

You missed the nuance in my comment.  I didn't say you only clip one bolt; you only NEED one strong bolt to be safe.  As long as one is solid you are safe.  You obviously clip more than one because you don't know for sure and because you need redundancy - especially in a TR.  I'd never TR on only one bolt (stupid).  The remainder of my comment mentioned redundancy, etc.  Please don't cherry pick one part of the comment and judge me on it. :)

Greg D wrote:

If that's the take away from the AAC article you are fucked.  

Again, not my entire comment.  Geez people - read past the part that triggers you. And, I mentioned the AAC article regarding "equalization."