Trango Vergo

Abram Herman wrote:!"So simple a caveman could feed slack." Really?? Hold the device perfectly flat on its side, and feed out slack only towards the left, not up towards the climber. Yeah, cause that's intuitive and straightforward!

Really?? You used a brand new belay device created to be one of the main safety points in keeping your partner from being hurt, didn't read the directions, trusted a gym employee's word to operate the brand new device safely, and yet still have the temerity to be indignant about the fact that your assumptions were wrong about how to use this new device that you didn't bother to learn how to use according to its specifications because apparently your partner's safety isn't important?

Because that's what it looks like.

kevin deweese wrote: Really?? You used a brand new belay device created to be one of the main safety points in keeping your partner from being hurt, didn't read the directions, trusted a gym employee's word to operate the brand new device safely, and yet still have the temerity to be indignant about the fact that your assumptions were wrong about how to use this new device that you didn't bother to learn how to use according to its specifications because apparently your partner's safety isn't important? Because that's what it looks like.

You're funny. What's with the hard-on for the Vergo? It's just a belay device, and I posted my experience with it. Calm yourself.

I was completely safe in using the device.

Have a good day, you seem like you could use some cheering up!

kevin deweese wrote: Because that's what it looks like.

Per Abrams note above, if he's finding it harder to feed than a Grigri, clearly Trango didn't do as good of an engineering job for a perfect "user experience" as they thought.

Next, thanks for the stats and link Jim Titt, and for the great discourse everyone else.

3rd: My order from REI seems to be taking quite a while, ordered on Sept 23rd. Anyone want to speak up when they ordered from REI and when they got it?

Lastly: saving this quote for the record. From 20 Kn first post link, in full.

" Creating the Vergo: An Interview with Trango Product Manager Adam Sanders

2016 marks Trango’s 25th year of creating innovative products that enhance the climbing experience. Building on this legacy, Trango is unveiling its most ambitious product to date during this year’s OR Winter Market. This spring, Trango will launch the Vergo belay device. The following is an interview with Product Manager Adam Sanders, on creating the Vergo.

Q: Please tell us a little about the Vergo.

A: The Vergo is an all-new assisted braking belay device that will be launched in spring 2016. This is a pretty huge product launch and will surely become a marquee item in our growing line. With a design focus on ergonomics and the relationship between belayer and device, we think the Vergo creates a more intuitive and safe belaying experience.

Q: What are the key features of the Vergo?

A: From the start, we didn’t want to make a product; we wanted to make an experience. Our team focused on enhancing the relationship between the belayer and the device by emphasizing ergonomics and human-device interaction to deliver safety, performance and redundancy. There’s never a need to override the device, even when feeding slack for a clip, which is a huge safety benefit.

Q: What makes the Vergo stand out among a crowded market of assisted braking belay devices?

A: There’s certainly been a lot of action lately, and likely more coming, but the Vergo is still pretty different. All assisted braking belay devices work every time. Period. The only time they don’t work is when the belayer holds them open. Seeing every popular device misused so widely in gyms and at the crag was the real inspiration to focus on the biggest limitation — how users will actually end up using a belay device. The fact that the Vergo never has to be overridden and its instructions don’t call for exceptions to that is the biggest reason it stands out, and it’s the reason I’ve felt comfortable handing it to partners who are about to belay me on a project.

Q: What can belayers (and climbers) expect when using the Vergo?

A: In short, the Vergo fits. The device feels comfortable in the hand and the belay method feels natural. By focusing on the end user, and exceeding industry certifications, safety gets a huge boost. This is because the most pleasant way to use it is also the safest. That’s the attribute I’m most proud of.

We added clear physical and visual indicators on the device to confirm correct usage, making it easy to learn and master, and some of the geometry actually helps to guard against the most common methods of belay device misuse. It’s also easy to control lowering speed and feeds smoothly while lead belaying.

Q: Where can we find out more about the Vergo?

A: We have a kiosk at Booth #3043 for attendees to have a look for themselves. We’ll also have a film with Ethan Pringle and Delaney Miller talking about their experiences with the Vergo, so come check it out!"

Billcoe wrote:Per Abrams note above, if he's finding it harder to feed than a Grigri, clearly Trango didn't do as good of an engineering job for a perfect "user experience" as they thought.

Not necessarily. User experience isn't only equal to innately understood operation. Especially if those user's are coming from devices with different operation modes (grigri/tube).

A big portion of what makes a user experience is how a device operates once you understand it's use. The actual operation might be simple, but it might not be easy to understand at a glance - meaning there's a learning curve.

Think about it. You can have something that you can understand immediately, but is a bit clunky in every day use. Or you can have something that operates very smoothly, but you have to teach yourself it's method of operation (read instructions/be taught/practice). Obviously the goal is easy to learn and elegant to use, but that's often not possible.

Unfortunately, the mass market usually tends toward "easily understood at a glance" instead of favoring more elegant operation, because in general people don't want to take the time to learn.

Brian L. wrote:Unfortunately, the mass market usually tends toward "easily understood at a glance" instead of favoring more elegant operation, because in general people don't want to take the time to learn.

And this is why we can't have nice things.

ntlhui wrote: And this is why we can't USE nice things.

FIFY

I've had the Vergo for a week or so now and put it through a few gym sessions and climbed with it this weekend. I'm coming at this from having used the Cinch for many years. I kind of doubt people happy with the Gri-Gri are going to be rushing out to pick up the Vergo, but dedicated Cinch users are pretty interested in the new device.

Loading the rope through the device requires one extra step because the lowering handle is attached to the rear plate and not the front plate. The handle has to be moved out of the way to drop the rope into the channel. Its a little awkward at first but then becomes a non-issue.

Feeding rope, as others have mentioned, requires a little bit more focus and technique than with the Cinch. One of the benefits people talked about with the Cinch was that it would essentially self-feed. The Vergo does not, and I think its likely people will go through a learning curve with this device when belaying a leader. Again, it shouldn't take more than one or two sessions for most belayers to figure it out. But one advantage of a Cinch was that it could be used as a self-feeding backup when jugging a fixed line - I'm interested if the Vergo will work the same way but am assuming it won't.

Lowering is much much smoother than with the Vergo. In terms of day-to-day performance, this is the most noticeable improvement. The bulkier handle has improved control and comfort, which was one of the primary drawbacks to the Cinch.

We will see whether the pin holds up better over time as Trango says it will. I'm sure we will hear a variety of reports after a few months of use.

And yes, its a little bit heavier and bulkier. I have a Cinch and like it a lot and am undecided as to whether the Vergo will make onto the rack for alpine outings.

In the end, if the Vergo eliminates the safety problems that have been identified with the Gri-Gri and the Cinch, it will be a big step forward. I just don't like the Gri-Gri because of the potential to override the locking mechanism and the many errors that have occurred using it. I know many people have had accidents using the Cinch as well. If the Vergo proves over time to be a safer option, Trango will have moved the ball forward in a pretty meaningful way.

I've had the Vergo since the first week they came out, and here's a quick review of what I initially think.

First impressions of the device?

It pays out rope really nicely. Smoooooooth.

But there were a few little quirks that I had to get used to, in order to really feel more natural belaying with it.

Bottom line, it was safe. The lead climber was never in any danger of hitting the ground if he fell. I always had control of the brake line.

But if he was grabbing a big handful of rope to clip a high QuickDraw, and it caught me by surprise and I short-roped him (while he is still pulling, the rope is under constant tension, and the cam is locked hard)...it took me a second or two to manually override the locking cam to pay out the extra rope he needed.

It was not as easy as the video shows to override the cam when it is locked and the rope is under tension.

I can do it easily (like in the video) when I am in my living-room practicing, and nothing is under tension. But it was a different story when the lead climber is pulling hard on the rope, the belay device is clipped onto my harness belay loop, and me and the harness are getting pulled with the rope.

But then again, maybe it is easy. Maybe there is another way (or different angle) that I am not familiar with. I am still pretty new with the device, and I am holding it left-to-right like in the video and instructions.

Anyhoo...THAT was something I was not expecting, which I had to learn to deal with in a hurry. (It happened to me again tonight).

A second thing - lowering the lead climber. We are using a thinner 9.5mm rope. And the device is "touchy" when belaying a climber. Too much pull on the handle, and the climber comes down fast. Too little pull on the handle, and the climber dribbles down the wall at a slug's pace.

You gotta get it juuuuuust right, in order to lower them at a good speed while still staying in control. Maybe it's different with different rope thicknesses. But in my case, those were my results. (Mammut 70m Infinity Protect. 9.5mm rope).

Other than that, the new Trango Vergo device worked great. Like I said, I really dig how easy it was for me to pay out the rope. Effortless.

That is my initial observation.

I am new to the Trango Vergo, and I have also never used a Cinch.

In Christ: Raymond

RaymondMillbrae wrote:it took me a second or two to manually override the locking cam to pay out the extra rope he needed. It was not as easy as the video shows to override the cam when it is locked and the rope is under tension.

It takes a while to get this move. Using the breaking strand as handle just rotate it clock wise. That's it. A tiny fraction of second.

Rotate it clockwise with the braking hand, huh?

I'll try that next time.

Thanks.

In Christ: Raymond

Finally managed to do a fair bit of lead belaying with Vergo this weekend.
Feeding slack was really smooth, less taxing on my bad left shoulder than GriGri, felt easier than ATC.
Lowering feels slightly smoother than GriGri

amarius wrote:Finally managed to do a fair bit of lead belaying with Vergo this weekend. Feeding slack was really smooth, less taxing on my bad left shoulder than GriGri, felt easier than ATC. Lowering feels slightly smoother than GriGri

Did you do any TR? I am interested in buying one, but am not sure how it would be for gym climbing on top rope and lead.

Thanks!

No TR - but I don't really see how it could fail for top roping - it locks like a dream, lowers slightly better than GriGri.

Cameron Fisher-Gomez wrote: Did you do any TR? I am interested in buying one, but am not sure how it would be for gym climbing on top rope and lead. Thanks!

It works fine for toproping, also. Buy one.

amarius wrote:No TR - but I don't really see how it could fail for top roping - it locks like a dream, lowers slightly better than GriGri.

I wasn't worried about it not locking, I just couldn't figure out how well it worked for TR from the pictures and couldn't find any videos.

Thanks!

FrankPS wrote: It works fine for toproping, also. Buy one.

Sweet! Thanks for letting me know.

Cameron Fisher-Gomez wrote: Did you do any TR? I am interested in buying one, but am not sure how it would be for gym climbing on top rope and lead. Thanks!

Are there any belay devices that aren't good with toproping?

kevin deweese wrote: Are there any belay devices that aren't good with toproping?

The Camp Matik

Top-roping is easy.

You do NOT have to pinch the device like in lead climbing.

In other words, your finger and thumb do not have to go in their respective spots.

Wifey belayed with it for the first time last night on top-rope. (She has never used anything but a Grigri 2). No problem. She figured it out in about 2 minutes.

Her feedback was that it was solid, and I was never in danger of her dropping me for any reason.

The gyms ropes were thick, and it was a bit tight getting it into the Vergo. And since my wife is pretty light (110lbs?), it was a little slow getting her down. The rope needed coaxing to pass through the Vergo, even with the handle being pulled back all the way.

But on narrower ropes, no problemo for top roping.

We use it on a Mammut 9.5mm Infinity Protect rope for lead climbing, and no problem there. It pays-out rope awesomely.

So that is my top rope experience with it.

In Christ: Raymond