Trango Vergo
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rocknice2 wrote: They tweaked a product that IMO is the best belay device I've tried. So Trango changed the name, big deal. I'm happy they kept the product. The Cinch has gotten a lot of undeserved bad press from forums like this one.It also got a lot of well-deserved criticism from myself, the German Alpine Association and many others. It´s the only device I would never let myself ne belayed with. Using the original upside down was the only way the DAV could recommend the safe use of the Cinch, nice to see the message has got through after best part of a decade:-) Apart from the pin wear issues, the plate going outside the retaining tab and the possibility of a part-worn device jamming open we shall wait and see if the curious habit of providing extremely low braking force in some high-force falls has been resolved. I´ll stick with a GriGri for the next 5 years and see how it goes. |
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Jim Titt wrote: It´s the only device I would never let myself be belayed with.Same with me. Too many unexplainable failures by "experienced" belayers. We'll see how the new version pans out, but I won't be letting anyone belay me with one anytime soon. |
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A: From the start, we didn’t want to make a product; we wanted to make an experience. " |
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I thing Trango did the right thing by redesigning the cinch but they should have done it 5 years ago. |
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JulianG wrote:I thing Trango did the right thing by redesigning the cinch but they should have done it 5 years ago. I don't think it will make a that big of a difference. There are so many new people starting to climb and if it is a good device I bet the trolls on MP will buy one. All products are not perfect and have bugs. The GriGri 2 had some issues dropping people, cars with brakes that don't work, friends with rigid stems that break ...... I can't wait until Wild Country Revo comes out As far as advertising goes, it is all lies. That is why i don't in that industryHad not seen news on the Revo yet. That looks like something I can get behind. I've been wondering how to build a device that utilized some sort of angular momentum to brake for a while now. I'm curious to see how well you can rip out slack for the leader. |
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Sam Stephens wrote: Had not seen news on the Revo yet. That looks like something I can get behind. I've been wondering how to build a device that utilized some sort of angular momentum to brake for a while now. I'm curious to see how well you can rip out slack for the leader.Or unload the device after leader falls, or lower faster without locking the device or not get strangled like I do in the seat belt of my car :-) It is not out yet but I Hope it works well. If it does it will make the belay devices more interesting. |
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Jim Titt wrote: It also got a lot of well-deserved criticism from myself, the German Alpine Association and many others. It´s the only device I would never let myself ne belayed with. Using the original upside down was the only way the DAV could recommend the safe use of the Cinch, nice to see the message has got through after best part of a decade:-) Apart from the pin wear issues, the plate going outside the retaining tab and the possibility of a part-worn device jamming open we shall wait and see if the curious habit of providing extremely low braking force in some high-force falls has been resolved. I´ll stick with a GriGri for the next 5 years and see how it goes.Meh, it's far more about the belayer than the device. My main climbing partner, my girlfriend and I have been using the Cinch for over 15 years collectively. We've caught upwards of 2,500 lead falls on the device between the three of us, and we've never dropped anyone. I've caught a 70' whipper that pulled me nearly 20' off the ground with the device, and I caught a 30' near-factor-two fall in Yosemite on it. That's just my experience with it. The problem about the premature Cinch wear is 100% legit though. The Cinch absolutely does wear to the point that it has almost no clamping force, making it dangerous when well-worn. However, appropriate retirement of the device solves this issue and hopefully engineering tweaks fixes it all together with this Cinch 2. |
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Personally, I'm waiting for it to come out. ;) |
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Just got an email from Trango that it is out now, but on REI website it is listed as a pre-order and I haven't found it for sale on any other websites yet. |
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Ed Schaefer wrote:Just got an email from Trango that it is out now, but on REI website it is listed as a pre-order and I haven't found it for sale on any other websites yet...The Trango website says it ships Monday, 9/26/16, which I assume also means that that's when it will ship to retail locations, e.g. REI. I went ahead and placed my order through REI since it has free shipping and counts towards my dividend -- well worth an extra week or two of waiting. |
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I purchased mine from the Trango website today, hoping it does ship on Monday and doesn't ship in stages or something. I'll be sure to post my impressions once I've used it for a bit. Full disclosure, the Cinch has always been my favorite belay device, hands down, so I'm assuming I'll be very biased about my review. (hell, I'm low on funds and made the belay device/food decision this morning. dern belay devices always win that one) |
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Alvin wrote: The Trango website says it ships Monday, 9/26/16, which I assume also means that that's when it will ship to retail locations, e.g. REI. I went ahead and placed my order through REI since it has free shipping and counts towards my dividend -- well worth an extra week or two of waiting.REI told me that my Vergo will ship on the 28th. I'd imagine yours will ship then, also. |
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Another review. |
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I rescind my earlier comments, I'm interested. Looks like they did a good job. Still interested in longevity considering the number of cinch pins I've worn out |
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As per an email response I received from Trango (about 2 months ago) in regards to the wearing out of a pin used on a Cinch, that may be an issue with the new Vergo.
Hey Raymond, Thanks for reaching out! The premature wear issue you are referring to was an issue with the first generation of the Cinch and was addressed shortly after hearing about it, roughly 10 years ago or so. That being said, the Vergo does not share any parts with the Cinch, it is a completely new device! Glad to hear you are ready to take the next step in climbing, remember that with any new device it will be important to read the instructions and watch any videos associated with said device so you can ensure you and your partner are climbing as safe as possible. Be safe out there, and always check your knot! Ryan Gajewski Dealer Services Great Trango Holdings, Inc. |
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RaymondMillbrae wrote:That being said, the Vergo does not share any parts with the Cinch, it is a completely new device!A device which shares a nearly identical mechanism with the older version of the device is not "completely new" no matter what their marketing folks say. If you didn't like the original cinch, you almost certainly won't like this version. Pretending this is new is purely marketing. It's a cinch 2. |
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shoo wrote: A device which shares a nearly identical mechanism with the older version of the device is not "completely new" no matter what their marketing folks say. If you didn't like the original cinch, you almost certainly won't like this version. Pretending this is new is purely marketing. It's a cinch 2.Crap, neither review mentioned that they were just a Cinch 2. Have you used one Shoo? Cause I have 2 on order, and 2 older Cinches in the basement I already don't use preferring Gri-1 or 2. |
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So, we have a communique quoted here: RaymondMillbrae wrote:...Hey Raymond, Thanks for reaching out! The premature wear issue you are referring to was an issue with the first generation of the Cinch and was addressed shortly after hearing about it, roughly 10 years ago or so.That being said, the Vergo does not share any parts with the Cinch, it is a completely new device! ...From which the following conclusion is made: RaymondMillbrae wrote:...wearing out of a pin used on a Cinch, that may be an issue with the new Vergo. ...And then, of course, is the following logical step: shoo wrote: A device which shares a nearly identical mechanism with the older version of the device is not "completely new" no matter what their marketing folks say. If you didn't like the original cinch, you almost certainly won't like this version. Pretending this is new is purely marketing. It's a cinch 2.Of course, it is possible that the Trango Vergo is Cinch 1 with exactly same parts but different color scheme, but how can one make that logical connection from Trango rep's email? |
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Got my tracking number from Trango and should have it by Thursday. Going up to Yosemite Fri-Sunday for some biwall fun and will report back! |
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amarius wrote:So, we have a communique quoted here: From which the following conclusion is made: And then, of course, is the following logical step: Of course, it is possible that the Trango Vergo is Cinch 1 with exactly same parts but different color scheme, but how can one make that logical connection from Trango rep's email?I think what Raymond and shoo are getting at is that if you look at pictures of the new Vergo, and compare them to the Cinch, the internals look nearly identical. Even the infamous pin looks to be unchanged from the Cinch. The Cinch had a rough track record... rope slipping issues due to to pin wear, and a straight through rope path which makes it easy to drop the climber if the belayer doesn't use a PERFECT belay technique. So it should come as no surprise that there is a lot of skepticism about the Vergo. Trango seems to realize that the Cinch had a bad reputation which is why they called the new device the Vergo instead of Cinch 2, despite the 2 devices being extremely similar in operation. Trango claims that they fixed the problem with pin wear on the Cinch 10 years ago. I can't really comment on whether or not the fix worked because I haven't used a cinch since 2006. We stopped using it, because the pin wore out, and caused rope slippage. Perhaps some of the belay technique problems have been solved by the new ergonomics of the Vergo. But I too am skeptical. Only time will tell. Assuming that all is well with the Vergo just because Trango says so, is just as big of jump in logic as the one shoo made when he said "It's a cinch 2". I have yet to read any review of the Vergo making any comparison to the Cinch, or discussing possible failure modes. Similarly, when the Cinch was released, there were no reviews that predicted it's shortcomings. |