big toe pain

Thanks for the reply.  I've got plenty of climbing related ailments and fully fall in the "something always injured but just deal" category.  This one's just a bit above and beyond, bone spurs limit the range of motion and gets really inflamed, etc.  Mostly just curious with people's experience related to climbing and the surgery if they've had it.

I've struggled a bit with big toe joint pain from climbing, skiing, and yoga. Apparently trama to the joint can cause gout attacks as well, of which I have suffered from twice. 

Basically, go easy on yourself. If your joint begins to hurt over multiple days, back off and give yourself a few days to recover. 

ahparker wrote:

Thanks for the reply.  I've got plenty of climbing related ailments and fully fall in the "something always injured but just deal" category.  This one's just a bit above and beyond, bone spurs limit the range of motion and gets really inflamed, etc.  Mostly just curious with people's experience related to climbing and the surgery if they've had it.

Oh, yeah. I have ugly bone spurs as well.  My feet are a horror to behold. 

The pain was the worst when I believed climbing shoes had to be unreasonably tight to be effective. There were days at work when the burning, pin like pain was nearly enbearable.  Then I found street shoe sized TC pro's, and life got significantly better.  I'll never wear soft lasted shoes again. 

Finding stiff approach shoes also has helped. 

But the nightly stretching, even on off days, has helped the most.  

Sorry ahparker. It's not fun. I'm the opposite, too much movement in my toe. I had what my Dr. eventually diagnosed as turf toe. Essentially a really loose tendon in my big toes at the joint where the toe connects with the foot. It flared up very suddenly and I had to stop climbing for about 6 weeks while I wore one of those medical shoe things that immobilizes the toes. After 6 weeks of that I started climbing easy stuff once a week and slowly increased over time. My Dr. told me that climbing, a small amount on moderate stuff, would actually help increase the strength and solidify the tendon so that my toes weren't so loose and he was right. It's been 3 years now and I rarely have any pain and climb 3-4 days a week. 

I have had to switch to mostly using bigger shoes with stiff soles, like Five Ten Quantum or TC Pros. But I find that I can still use my Blancos now and then without any problems. 

http://eveningsends.com/climbing-shoes-tight/

Thanks again for the replies, much appreciated.  I've certainly dialed back the aggressive shoes.  Oddly enough, actually climbing doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as running, or just plain walking/standing around.  Not sure if it's because the shoes hold my foot in a certain shape or what, the Dr found that odd too.  One other reason she is leaning toward cleaning out the joint and shaving down the spurs is the xrays show a broken off piece of bone between the joint and the toe that she thinks will grind down cartilage etc long term.

I've had cheilectomies on both big toes and am still climbing! I did gain quite a bit of range of motion back, and only wish that I had it done sooner before I wore down the cartilage. I still have a bit of pain when I climb, but stiffer shoes help. The recovery from the surgery was pretty quick on both feet. I was running by 4 wks out, but climbing was at least a month and a half, and even then I had to buy a pair of shoes one size bigger. It was probably at least 2 months before I was back to my regular sized shoes. Good luck!

Thanks Lex! That's exactly what I was looking for.  Just read some horror story recovery type stuff, I know that all exists no matter how big or small the procedure, but it made me somewhat nervous nonetheless.  Did you run into any real issues with the recovery process or pretty smooth throughout? Weird question kinda, but would you say the foot/toe feels pretty strong. I guess I'm mostly just wondering if you are limited in any way or are you back to just doing whatever you'd like without thinking about it really?  Thanks so much in advance!

I have no regrets about having the procedure done. I had each foot done about 2 yrs apart, by different doctors (because I had moved), and the recovery was about the same for each foot. Running/hiking/ skiing definitely came back faster than climbing. I have very little cartilage in my R toe, but it would be way worse if I hadn't gotten it done. So nothing about having the surgery is limiting any of my activity now - the only thing limiting me is the weird biomechanics of my feet and previous overuse injuries. Your foot will probably feel better once those bone spurs aren't limiting the range of motion of your toe! Also, I looked at this blog a lot post surgery - the guy is a dr, so it is super detailed! http://cheilectomyexperience.blogspot.com/2013/07/table-of-contents-full-history.html .

Sounds like gout. better have it checked

Thanks for the info Lex, very encouraging.  That's basically what I was hoping to hear!  I'll check out that blog as well.

Could be 'turf toe'; it is a common (mostly in football but can occur in any setting) injury caused by hyperextension (toes to ceiling) of the great toe.  Pain is referred to the 'knuckle' of the toe especially when extending the toes, being on your toes (like edging) , and may feel like a bruise to touch.  Of course you should see a specialist.

This happened to me recently probably because my climbing shoes were old and lost their rigidity.  The APRN told me to take NSAIDS (ibuprofen) and rest it.  Ice is reccomended for 48 hours after the injury and then heat.  I'm on week 2 of rest and hangboarding, hopefully it will be healed by another 2 weeks.

BUMPIN' This because almost 50 yrs of stuffing the tootsies into Vice-like shoes, then into cracks, cranking down, then standing tipy-toe has resulted in 

a shocking thing

Big  BIG TOE Pain. . . 

for hallux limitus-- do people recommend going to an extremely stiff climbing shoe (eg a board-lasted shoe, like the boreals?)

Shoe recommendations are always a crapshoot, but think of the great toe joint like a rusty gate hinge.  The squeaks are pain signals of bone rubbing on bone.  Stiff soled shoes like TC Pro may help by minimizing motion,but your mileage may vary.   Spend some time in a shop, don't rush it.  Retired podiatrist here.  Good luck.

BTW; Hallux rigidis indicates worn down cartilage and minimal to no motion.   Some of these go on to fuse themselves and become pain free, but that is the exception.
Hallux limitis implies limited range of motion.  Many of these are helped by orthotics.  Not in climbing shoes, but for walking and running.  Continued jamming of the joint due to bad mechanics further damage the joint and may lead to rigidis.

Commented on here a while ago, when I first got the Hallux Limitus diagnosis.  So my first podiatrist wanted to do the procedure where they shave off the bone growth, ended up not doing it.  In the last couple years I've probably had like 3 cortisone injections.  At this point I always wear orthodics in any shoe that's not a climbing shoe, this seems to have helped more than anything else (other than the immediacy of cortisone).  I used to get a lot of pain running, but gravitated toward more supportive running shoes and was just able to do my first 50k with no issues.

As for climbing shoes, I've actually found my toe hurts less in a little tighter shoes, like a slightly bent Miura lace.  Must support the big toe a little better.  I find in my TC Pro's despite being stiffer, my big toe bends at the "main" joint more, rather than the one closer to the toe nail.  So as a more extreme example, climbing slab in the TC Pros (basically fit flat toed) feels a little more painful than a slightly bent miura.

Just my experience and I'm sure others have a completely different one, but hope that makes some sense and may help.

thanks for the replies. Ahparker-- is the orthotic essentially a fully rigid insole? Or is it more complicated than that?

best
matt

No problem.  Honestly I spend about 95% of my time in Birkenstocks now after the recommendation from my podiatrist.  Seems as though a lot will try to get you to do custom footbeds that are crazy expensive, but I have several Sole cork footbeds that I used in everything from my approach shoes to running shoes to Vans.  They help a ton in my experience, not super cheap, but not custom either.

I think climbing shoes etc are never going to "help" the situation given the nature of climbing on your toes, but hopefully you can find something that works for you.  Personally I'm trying to avoid the surgery as long as possible, I have a fat bump on the joint, but so far I've been able to adjust and climb anything I want.  Until that's not the option any more I'll wait.

I'm wondering if a regimen of rolling/stretching feet for everyone-- not just those experiencing pain-- might not be a good idea for climbers.  Both rolling thoroughly (using racquetballs/golf balls or reasonable facsimile) before and after, and stretching/strengthening/flexibility exercises (check Youtube for videos geared toward dancers; don't be put off if the titles say they're for dancers or pointe preparation; they're good exercises for anyone).  Reading advice on foot pain for ballet dancers who dance en pointe might also not be a bad idea (I think it's safe to say they put plenty of pressure on their toes!).

From a dance standpoint, foot shape may make a difference.  A tapered toe shape, or a shape where the second toe is longer than the first, may make a difference because of weight distribution or the way the shoes fit (maybe this is common knowledge; I don't know that much about fitting climbing shoes).

None of this may be helpful for those already with issues, especially problems of arthritis (or other irreversible damage/injuries) or that need surgery to correct, but could be a good practice for general foot care.