Backup for ascending fixed lines

tenesmus wrote:so when you are cleaning an aid pitch you have a third point of pro? It apparently sounds obvious to you guys but my old school aid friends never mentioned this. They just hopped their upper ascender past the piece and quickly back on to the line. So I guess I need to experiment with one of the systems mentioned below... edit to thank you for the cool post on cleaning aid pitches.

Your old school aid friends were tied into the end of the rope as a third point of protection and were hopefully tying in short as they cleaned for a better third point of protection.

The difference here is that the lines are fixed at the bottom. I'd at least fix a biner around the rope on a cowtail or through the ascender but Id feel most comfortable with a third ascension device or knot especially if it's the first pitch and especially* if the fixed line isnt vertical.

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok wrote: I've seen Tom put a Klemheist directly above his ascender. Seems silly, but it did work, and didn't seem to slow him down any.

Another question is would a friction hitch really do any good if you failed the system from your top ascender? In other words, what does a corded hitch above your top jumar offer that a mini-trax will or won't also?

(Pete -- I meant prussik/kleimheist - a munter wouldn't have any application here; but I realize you are just making a point in using 2 points of contact correctly)

Also, it seems this topic is crossing over on into cleaning.

tenesmus wrote: When I went back and started jugging back up, (sans grigri backup) the piton blew and I fell on the ascenders(thank goodness to my neighbor for loaning me a pair of BD's).

Not sure if I understand this. Are you staying the if you had a different brand of ascenders the rope would have cut....

The BD ascenders have very aggressive teeth from what I can tell.

Thanks.

john

It was my understanding they pinch the rope more than just digging into it. I'd heard it touted as an advantage in this situation over Petzl ascenders because they only dig into the rope with their teeth. Who knows if that's true, but I do have a little sheath damage where I fell.

"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok wrote:Oh yeah, forgot about the Gibbs! Tim is right. But of course, Tim is also a caver. Gibbs is similar to a Petzl Rescuescender.

Accept the Rescuescender won't sever the rope if fallen on, it will slip instead. So it's probably the best choice all around.

And yes, always clip a daisy or sling into the rope if you intend to take any of your ascenders off to pass a knot. All rebelays should have a loop tie in for this purpose.