Nozzles

Okay team,

 Lets talk about nozzles when gluing. In particular, the fact that they can harden up in just minutes before I can even get to the next bolt and continue. Maybe I'm stubborn but feel like using fewer nozzles is something of stupid pride. Its likely the cheapest part of the entire process, but it seems we are always needing more.

So a few questions.

1. Where are folks purchasing nozzles directly? Say for ACGold100+

2. Anyone come up with any way to slow the hardening, beyond 'Pick a colder day' or squeeze the tube to keep it flowing. That just wastes more glue and is a mess in my trash bag. 

3. How many nozzles are you using? Help me validate my stupid pride is indeed just stupid and that I should get over the fact that I can't get away with 1 or 2.

I've been keeping my AC100 on ice before we glue on a hot day. I cannot understate how much it helps. When Pikes Peak Climbers Alliance and Boulder Climbing Community had our last rebolt at Shelf Road, I was getting 1 damn bolt per nozzle since it was an unseasonably hot day, whereas PPCA had no problems a month later in similar conditions using 1 or 2 nozzles per tube with the AC100 on ice or a cold pack. 

Hey Jon,

Here are my 2 cents.

1)    I get mine where I buy the glue. They are actually quite expensive for what they are. I had one quote for CAD$ 75 for five of them from a local construction material supplier. After that, I went directly to the manufacturer (Sika in my case), complained about how much their distributers are charging for a few cents worth of plastic. Then I explained what we are doing and ask if they are willing to support our cause. Brought the price down to CAD$15 for five without any issue. Also, some glues come with two nozzles, if you are getting better with it and mostly use up the entire tube at once, the spare ones will start accumulating quickly.

2)    Practice, practice, practice and get faster and more efficient. Prepare everything (drill, clean, etc.) when rappelling down the first time so you just need to apply glue and set the bolts when rappelling the second time. Putting the tubes into your fridge (fridge, not freezer!!!) the night before if they can handle it (check in the user’s manual how far down they can be stored first!!!) and keep them cold during the day until you use them (bring a little cooler or cover them with some damp/wet towels). 

3)    My goal is to use one tube per route, or even one for two or three routes. Only works if the routes are close enough together so you can rap down the middle one and swing left and right gluing the two other ones at the same time. Of course, need to prep everything 100% before start gluing. Doesn’t always work out using only one nozzle per route or, but I would say once you get your systems right, 95% of the time you are fine just using one. 

Also, plan on using the entire tube at once, once you know roughly how many holes you are getting out of one tube, you can make sure you don’t end up needing just a half a tube and another nozzle the next time. Just retro another route close by, or just retro an anchor of a neighboring route, etc. doing this you will get lots of karma points and you won’t need hardly any extra nozzles.

Practicing and planning ahead are key!!!

HN2 sells extra nozzles and I’ve gotten plenty from them. I second putting the nozzles and glue on ice (or in a lunch box with a few ice packs) before starting. That being said - the glue mixing is a runaway train, once the exothermic reaction starts happening in the nozzle, it doesn’t take long to burn off the ice cooling and then you’ve got maybe 90 seconds between holes. The biggest thing you can do is make sure you’ve got everything staged perfectly before you start so you can just rip it and go.

I generally only use 1 nozzle in a glue day, though I’ve definitely used 2 before. Sometimes that nozzle is good for multiple tubes (record is 37 glue-ins in a day, all on the same nozzle), most times it’s less than 1, as I generally get close to 20 bolts a tube

Change to a different resin.

yeah, you need something with a slower cure time.  as much as i love ac100, i gave up on keeping that working in warm/hot temps.  yes, it is possible, but even a pre-cooled tube isn't the end all that people make it out to be...  it's feasible if you're going TD and everything is prepped, but having things harden up in a couple of minutes is just no fun...   

Something I only learned recently, which explained why I'd often get clogged nozzles even though I thought I was moving fast.

If you leave ac100 (or whatever) on the outside of your nozzle it will start to cure. During that process it heats up. That heat will make the ac100 still in the nozzle cure faster.

Tldr. Wipe excess glue off the outside of your nozzle after each bolt.

Use a pure epoxy or, have all your holes drilled, cleaned then glue on abseil.

We just buy a tropical rated resin, easy enough in Europe and the hot countries like India. You can formulate vinylester to cure in almost any desired temperature by adjusting the amount of accelerator, I worked next door to a factory using 140°C resin (they pressed the hemp fibre roof liners for BMW sports cars) and I got some for a project we were on. The normal vinylester we were using we stocked three different temperature grades depending on the season and the job or we mixed the accelerator in ourselves (though it's a hassle as it's toxic).

Any decent commercial tropical vinylester morter goes up to 45°C with a 2 minute gel time, they don't actually imagine anyone works hotter than that!

Jon Cheifitz wrote:

Okay team,

 Lets talk about nozzles when gluing. In particular, the fact that they can harden up in just minutes before I can even get to the next bolt and continue. Maybe I'm stubborn but feel like using fewer nozzles is something of stupid pride. Its likely the cheapest part of the entire process, but it seems we are always needing more.

So a few questions.

1. Where are folks purchasing nozzles directly? Say for ACGold100+

2. Anyone come up with any way to slow the hardening, beyond 'Pick a colder day' or squeeze the tube to keep it flowing. That just wastes more glue and is a mess in my trash bag. 

3. How many nozzles are you using? Help me validate my stupid pride is indeed just stupid and that I should get over the fact that I can't get away with 1 or 2.

1. Hownot 2 or fixe.

2. Mentioned up thread, cool the tubes down and wipe off the excess off the nozzle after every bolt. I put them in a softside cooler with cold beer, or you can get a little freezie sleeve from amazon made for a beer bottle.

3. 1-2 per route usually with prepped holes. Not mentioned already but learning how to ascend faster and prepping your tool organization to be better can help. When I prep the holes I dry fit the glue-in (twist bolts) and flip it upside-down so I know it hasn't been glued yet. This serves as a note that the hole is prepped and ready to go, pull it out squirt glue, stick it back in, paper towel, next one. I bring plenty of paper towels rather than trying to make a couple or a rag last a whole route. Latex gloves are nice in theory but usually rip early on, or keep the glue off your hands but ON the rope and other gear. 

My record is somewhere north of 40 bolts on one nozzle with Liquid-Roc 500 (a long-cure epoxy), I'm sure others have done more. With AC100 I've gotten 20-25 passing the gun back and forth with a friend between 2 nearby routes which can be a decent strategy when applicable.  Always have plenty of nozzles on hand, they're not THAT expensive compared to everything else (including gas to the crag) and it's a real day stopper to run out.

Switch to EP800 even on the hottest days I still get adequate working time to just use one nozzle, and it's a stronger glue, and just as cheap 

Yep, EP800 functions just fine in tropical heat. I used the double-tube cartridges from HowNot2.