Photos of BEAUTIFUL HARDWARE pt2

That to me looks like the perfect anchor. Vertically spaced bolts make me smile.

That’s a beautiful anchor! 

A couple recent offset anchors to add to the mix.

I have this question… should I have rotated the upper right hanger slightly more left? 

I position hangers so an imaginary line between the center of the head of the bolt and the inside bottom of the eye (the point where a carabiner or quicklink makes contact) is pointed in the direction of loading. But in your anchor it is very close and if anything, a torque on the righthand bolt from loading will tend to tighten the bolt so no problem. The bigger concern would be situations where loading creates a torque that loosens the bolt - typically lefthand bolts on anchors.

Thank you Josh! That's helpful to understand that there's a difference to consider in regards to the left and right bolts. Do my left side hanger orientation look okay?

I think your anchor looks great. In a perfect world I think the red lines (orientation line Josh talks about) and green line (actual load) would be the same line. It’s possible if loaded heavily the left hanger could turn a bit loosening it. If people were too roping off draws your alignment is probably perfect. Hard to match the pull line of a built anchor and the lowering hardware, and I think if it’s close it’s unlikely to turn and loosen off. 

Josh Janes wrote:

I position hangers so an imaginary line between the center of the head of the bolt and the inside bottom of the eye (the point where a carabiner or quicklink makes contact) is pointed in the direction of loading. But in your anchor it is very close and if anything, a torque on the righthand bolt from loading will tend to tighten the bolt so no problem. The bigger concern would be situations where loading creates a torque that loosens the bolt - typically lefthand bolts on anchors.

Good advice here. 

I often purposely rotate the right hanger a little counter-clockwise on purpose (away from the direction of loading). This is because I know it'll only get torqued down when pulled toward the center, but I don't want it to loosen when someone decides to hang directly onto it, causing it to rotate the other direction.

Thank you, Peter!

Which of the two is the ideal line to consider when orienting?

I think what nbrown is describing is that at an anchor like the ones pictured, if a climber clips the rope into both lower-offs and then weights the rope, the force vectors will be in one direction (toward the central point of equalization), but if the climber were to clip only one bolt and weight the rope, the force vector will be in a slightly different direction (straight down, with gravity). So, if I have an anchor that is primarily a lower-off, I assume the climber will usually clip both lower-offs, then say "take," and weight the rope... so I'll orient the hangers accordingly. On the other hand, if I have an anchor that is likely to have climbers both hanging off individual bolts and lowering (for example a belay/rappel station on a multi pitch), I'll usually split the difference when orienting the hangers (halfway between a straight-down, with gravity vector and an inwards, towards the point of equalization vector). 

By the way, this may not seem like a big deal but I see loose, lefthand anchor bolts all the time in soft sandstone. It's a real thing. But perhaps the circumstance you see it most is on steep or traversing routes where a swinging fall, or even just weighting the rope while lowering, will put a torque on the bolt and cause a spinning hanger, or worse, a bolt that unscrews.

This is yet another reason why I often prefer vertically staggered bolts to horizontally staggered bolts... and/or glue-ins.

Anchor sets I installed on two new routes yesterday.

#1

#2

I'm really liking the vertical-offset anchor with the single wear point and a loose backup from the lower bolt. I don't imagine that this crag will get enough traffic to wear through the upper captive carabiner, but if so it's easy enough to replace the upper biner with a single mussy.

Adam Franco wrote:

Anchor sets I installed on two new routes yesterday.

#1

#2

I'm really liking the vertical-offset anchor with the single wear point and a loose backup from the lower bolt. I don't imagine that this crag will get enough traffic to wear through the upper captive carabiner, but if so it's easy enough to replace the upper biner with a single mussy.

Please don't set up anchors this way unless the lower anchor is a closed ring. Setup like this, it's super easy for the belayer's side of a top-rope to clip into the lower carabiner, and then the lower bolt is not in the system in the slightest.

This happens all the time in real life, it's not just a theoretical. Luckily those are probably the stiff gated hooks, but even with those it will happen.

Here's a minimalistic vertical closed anchor, setup for the direction of rope pull (this is a 3rd pitch anchor). With this anchor the single link on the lower bolt works fine, but in many cases you'd want a link & ring:

Greg Barnes wrote:

Please don't set up anchors this way unless the lower anchor is a closed ring. Setup like this, it's super easy for the belayer's side of a top-rope to clip into the lower carabiner, and then the lower bolt is not in the system in the slightest.

This happens all the time in real life, it's not just a theoretical. Luckily those are probably the stiff gated hooks, but even with those it will happen.

I like these anchors. While the unclipping (double-clipping) of the lower carabiner is possible, I don't think it's that common and the steeper the route is (and less traversy it is) the less likely it is to happen. It's not foolproof but a little care from the lowering climber (or top-roping climber) can usually prevent it (if you're top-roping, maybe set up an equalized anchor with your own gear anyway?) Even if it did happen, the top anchor point would still have to fail for the whole system to fail. 

Although the best solution might be to add another quicklink and some chain to equalize the two carabiners, that is added cost and material - and it defeats the idea of a single wear point... Though I guess you could argue you wouldn't want the bottom carabiner to unclip AND the top wear point to be mostly worn out. Sure, using a closed ring on the bottom prevents the unclipping from happening, but then you're back to dealing with the risks of untying, threading, and retying of knots that lower-offs purpotedly seek to avoid. I guess climbing is dangerous? Regardless, I think the above setup is pretty nice and wouldn't fault its use in a low-traffic area.

Josh Janes wrote:

I like these anchors. While the unclipping (double-clipping) of the lower carabiner is possible, I don't think it's that common and the steeper the route is (and less traversy it is) the less likely it is to happen. It's not foolproof but a little care from the lowering climber (or top-roping climber) can usually prevent it (if you're top-roping, maybe set up an equalized anchor with your own gear anyway?) Even if it did happen, the top anchor point would still have to fail for the whole system to fail. 

Although the best solution might be to add another quicklink and some chain to equalize the two carabiners, that is added cost and material - and it defeats the idea of a single wear point... Though I guess you could argue you wouldn't want the bottom carabiner to unclip AND the top wear point to be mostly worn out. Sure, using a closed ring on the bottom prevents the unclipping from happening, but then you're back to dealing with the risks of untying, threading, and retying of knots that lower-offs purpotedly seek to avoid. I guess climbing is dangerous? Regardless, I think the above setup is pretty nice and wouldn't fault its use in a low-traffic area.

It's very common, and it happens super easily, just mess around a bit and you'll see. Especially since you don't know which "direction" people will clip the anchor. Vertical offset anchors should not be open systems on the lower bolt.

Greg Barnes wrote:

It's very common, and it happens super easily, just mess around a bit and you'll see. Especially since you don't know which "direction" people will clip the anchor. Vertical offset anchors should not be open systems on the lower bolt.

I have set up many many anchors in this fashion, probably 100+. Horn up top, captive down low.
I have only had 1 that was in an orientation that this happened to. Switched the side the captive was on and added a link, and can not make it happen. I test this on every anchor I put in that is vertical offset with a captive on the bottom. I look like a weirdo swinging around / running around the base trying to get it to happen. I first was warned about this from post of your long time back. so I made it part of my protocol to figure out how to best mitigate the possibility. There are more details of things I consider but won't get long winded here on that minutia.

I don't think it "easy" as you posture, but is 100% something to consider and a point worth hitting on.

I replied but hit the post limit, I've only seen anchors like this a handful of times, and had the rope self-clip (unclip) a couple times. Probably more likely when they are added to older vertical anchors (after removing the old chains). Not obvious to many folks that this can happen, sounds like you set yours up well, but I'd pick horizontal anchors just to KISS.

Back to the topic - beautiful hardware! New Sport Bolting anchor hooks in action:

And lowering:

Wow, absolutely in love with those Greg

Me too, also psyched that each hook is 2.1 ounces lighter than an old green hook. Doesn't sound like much, but it adds up quick when you carry a big pile to a crag!

edit for Dan below - they're fine, bolts are closer than they look from that perspective.

Greg Barnes wrote:

I replied but hit the post limit, I've only seen anchors like this a handful of times, and had the rope self-clip (unclip) a couple times. Probably more likely when they are added to older vertical anchors (after removing the old chains). Not obvious to many folks that this can happen, sounds like you set yours up well, but I'd pick horizontal anchors just to KISS.

Back to the topic - beautiful hardware! New Sport Bolting anchor hooks in action:

Hey Greg thanks for sharing your insights. This anchor looks good but I'm wondering if it will make the rope twist when the last climber lowers. What do you think?

Adam Franco wrote:

Consider facing the bottom carabiner toward the rock so that the other strand of the rope won't clip into it by mistake. Here's an example: