Photos of BEAUTIFUL HARDWARE pt2

I replaced this anchor nearly 10 years ago, finally made it back this weekend to add some clip and lowers 😅

I really like where the industry has gone with reasonably priced lower off solutions.

Anna Brown wrote:

This anchor worked best as a horizontal anchor as configured because of rock quality concerns  

We’d love constructive feedback if you see any room for improvement.

Generally speaking, I'd avoid horizontally spaced mussy hooks because of the possibility to double -unclip if you fall from above the anchors.  It would be safer if the mussy hooks were replaced with captive- eye carabiners like the US stainless or similar 

Anna Brown wrote:

I’d marry this anchor too.

Hat tip to Ian & Tanya W. & the ASCA for making this anchor hardware possible. Ian and I are building/expanding skills here in New Mexico by working and learning together. We wrapped up our first small scale gluein project this past Saturday and were both happy with the results.

Some of our glue dried underneath the tape so we’ll work on that technique a bit more, or just leave the tape at home. We used a drill bit to chip a bit of it away after I took this photo to tidy things up.

This anchor worked best as a horizontal anchor as configured because of rock quality concerns  

We’d love constructive feedback if you see any room for improvement.

Awesome anchor! Classic.

Jim Day wrote:

Generally speaking, I'd avoid horizontally spaced mussy hooks because of the possibility to double -unclip if you fall from above the anchors.  It would be safer if the mussy hooks were replaced with captive- eye carabiners like the US stainless or similar 

If its lower to normal traffic area I agree....but if this thing gets heavy use, we all know the replacement interval for mussies is unmatched.

Flip the orientation of one of the mussys 180 deg

Past User wrote:

Flip the orientation of one of the mussys 180 deg

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/124636099/why-are-mussy-hooks-not-installed-oppositeopposed 

I’ve played around with having opposed mussies together on a big ole quicklink - it’s nice but I only use it for specific anchor setups. Realistically I’ve just switched to the stainless hooks for their lower cost and increased gate resistance

Mr Rogers wrote:

If its lower to normal traffic area I agree....but if this thing gets heavy use, we all know the replacement interval for mussies is unmatched.

Yes, but heavy use should be even more of a reason to eliminate a potentially life-threatening failure mode

Jim Day wrote:

Yes, but heavy use should be even more of a reason to eliminate a potentially life-threatening failure mode

Mussies are not going away anytime soon and the "failure mode" is an important consideration going forward that all should be educated about. We all know that will only get us so far.

I'd suggest the maker needs to seriously beef up the wire so as to improve the resistance to unclipping. It would be better than nothing, imo.

Anna Brown wrote:

I’d marry this anchor too.

Hat tip to Ian & Tanya W. & the ASCA for making this anchor hardware possible. Ian and I are building/expanding skills here in New Mexico by working and learning together. We wrapped up our first small scale gluein project this past Saturday and were both happy with the results.

Some of our glue dried underneath the tape so we’ll work on that technique a bit more, or just leave the tape at home. We used a drill bit to chip a bit of it away after I took this photo to tidy things up.

This anchor worked best as a horizontal anchor as configured because of rock quality concerns  

We’d love constructive feedback if you see any room for improvement.

2 questions meant for my own learning:

1. Is there enough length on those quicklinks to let the mussies come together to avoid rope twists? 

2. Are you worried about the links rusting shut over time and making mussy replacement difficult? I've been trying to make sure I install in a way where someone with a small wrench could easily replace vs having to haul out special tools to break open a rusted system, but then again I'm in the PNW.

Jim Day wrote:

Yes, but heavy use should be even more of a reason to eliminate a potentially life-threatening failure mode

I'm not in full agreement with that, but the logic is sound indeed.
Could also easily add couple links to one side, and use one of the stainless captives. Adds some more security eliminating one of the mussies, and then have the remaining mussy be the main wear point.
Easy to implement. Like a vertical offset without the bolts being the thing being offset.
I'll do this sometimes since I'm a big fan of a isolating wear to 1 peice of the anchor and sometimes the rock just doesnt allow for offset bolt placement.

John Tuttle wrote:

Mussies are not going away anytime soon and the "failure mode" is an important consideration going forward that all should be educated about. We all know that will only get us so far.

I'd suggest the maker needs to seriously beef up the wire so as to improve the resistance to unclipping. It would be better than nothing, imo.

So much going on here, first of all John, yes considerations should be made with regards to educating on the use of mussies, somewhat standardization of anchor setups in a locale make this easier to educate on, along with Practice anchors at beginner spots that mirror the nearby routes anchors.

In the 1 fatality that has been attributed to mussy anchors in the last decade (and ever), the most glaring factor was that the victim had never cleaned an anchor before and didn’t know what to do. Don’t assume that any anchor is fool proof. It cannot be ruled out that the victim may have completely unclipped themselves from the anchor prior to attempting to weight the system.

It’s impossible to know how many accidents clip and lower setups have prevented, locally we went from having a rappelling or cleaning accident of some kind every couple of years, to none in several years. We see roughly a quarter million climber user days per year. 

Some considerations, when possible, place the anchor so it’s unlikely for the climber to have their waist above the hooks when cleaning. 

Avoid using hooks on routes where the climber is likely to top out above the anchor. Lots of solutions here, one is to use a steel carabiner opposed and slightly below the mussy so that the mussy takes the wear. Also the option of using a closed system, I think a closed system is especially warranted if the route is primarily accessed from above to be set up on top rope.

Beefing up the wire will have little on their propensity to unclip. Unclipping happens from the rope becoming double clipped, no gate design is going to resist bodyweight and will just make it harder to clip. The horizontal position of the mussy gate and large nose vs a carabiner is what makes them easier to accidentally double clip.

In general well spaced horizontal mussy anchors are difficult to simulate a double unclipping event. The mussys do not need to touch each other to prevent twisting, as long as a large protrusion of rock doesn’t sit between them. Mussys sit further from the wall than other hardware, making this unlikely. 

Making one mussy gate face opposite makes it hard to clip and positions the nose strangely against the rock, it’s doable when chains are incorporated and the anchor is on an overhang, otherwise they skulls be gates facing out as recommended by ASCA.

The spring hooks mentioned have far too stiff of a gate, I’d much rather see a simple steel carabiner anywhere non coastal.

Regarding the links rusting shut, just use stainless with a dab of blue loctite. It looks like the ones pictured are stainless spray painted gray. 

In related news, sport bolting has their new mussy design in production, the main difference being fixed clip in points below the hook and a slightly redesigned gate, as well as more beef where the rope runs and less beef elsewhere resulting in a lighter product. I imagine you’ll start seeing them shipped as soon as the current stock of old style hooks runs out.

DrRockso RRG wrote:

In related news, sport bolting has their new mussy design in production, the main difference being fixed clip in points below the hook and a slightly redesigned gate, as well as more beef where the rope runs and less beef elsewhere resulting in a lighter product. I imagine you’ll start seeing them shipped as soon as the current stock of old style hooks runs out.

Any chance of a stainless steel version being made?  

In risk analysis, you have 3 considerations for a known failure mode:

1. Occurrence 

2. Detection

3. Severity 

For the failure mode "double-unclipping horizontally spaced mussys", 1 death in 10 years doesn't seem like a whole lot, but when the detectability is abismal and the severity is death, we should strive fro mistake proof solutions in our anchor setups.

Education and awareness is not a mistake -proof solution and is generally ineffective 

Trying to anticipate instances where someone may or may not go above the mussys is partially effective at best, depending on how much thought goes into the placements.

Using offset anchors where the wear component is a mussy but the redundant component is a regular caribiner without a big nose counts as mistake-proof for this failure mode.

Using horizontally spaced captive eye us stainless style carabiners also counts as mistake -proof for this failure mode (regardless of complaints over stiff gates 😋)

There's another potential failure mode of "caribiner wear/material removal" which mussys are great for, but the detectability on that is excellent because people can see the wear and will report it/ stop using them long before they're actually unsafe.  So it shouldn't be considered over double-unclipping.

Jim Day wrote:

There is no such thing as mistake proof solutions, an accident could easily occur because someone is pumped out of their gourd and can't clip the stiff gates on a SS spring hook, they've got all the clipping slack out, their foot is behind the rope, and they're not wearing a helmet. They're too pumped to think maybe I should just hang a draw. Just an example of course. While the spring hooks have a gate orientation that's much more likely to be unclipped, the large nose makes it's certainly still possible, especially on low angle slabs. You're kidding yourself thinking that any system is mistake-proof, people will always find a way to screw things up. It's always a balance between education and engineering user friendly designs. The more user friendly things gets their is a tendency for certain users to think they can by with less education. 

As I said above there's a distinct possibility that the mentioned accident had nothing to do with the mussy gates being unclipped, we won't ever know, and hopefully there's never another accident like it. I do know that accident got people thinking about how we place open systems and if/when it's appropriate to send an inexperienced person to clean the anchor. 

Maybe some areas are gray, but on many routes the holds end after the anchors, the route ends on a ledge, or on a distinct clipping hold. It's quite easy to anticipate where the bolts need to be to prevent this. For areas that are gray, there's plenty of options to improve setups.

While I've yet to see it with a mussy, I've seen plenty of fixed gear that was used WELL past being safe, down to a couple of MM's of material. Mussys give a lot of time for stuff to be replaced in between when people think it's sketchy and someone gets around to replace it, other materials not as much.

Regarding a SS mussy, Sport Bolting has mentioned coming out with one, however I don't know if they have one in production yet. Everyone saying use the Climbing Taiwan double gate mussy, they are rarely ever in stock, not really a sustainable option at this point.  

 

Back to beautiful hardware, here’s some SS hardware and mussys I installed on a route today. The long chains are needed to make the mussys reachable from the clipping hold below which is just above a horizontal roof. Due to the overhang and flexibility in the chain, the mussys do not touch the wall when hanging freely and can be clipped opposed if desired. With short chains or a single quicklink setup, never attempt to force one mussy to be clipped opposed if that isn't the intended orientation, the twisting is likely to cause an accidental unclipping of one of the mussys, which I've witnessed happen a couple of times.

The Redhead Dynabolt gold sleeve bolts on this route are 21 years old with little signs of corrosion, even in the KY humidity in rain, thanks to their yellow chromate plating.

DrRockso RRG wrote:

There a no such thing as mistake proof solutions, an accident could easily occur because someone is pumped out of their gourd and can't clip the stiff gates on a SS spring hook, they've got all the clipping slack out, their foot is behind the rope, and they're not wearing a helmet. They're too pumped to think maybe I should just hang a draw. Just an example of course. 

 

Mitake proof solutions do exist but they are by failure mode.  "Pumped out of their gourd and can't clip a stiff gate" is a different failure mode than "double unclipping horizontally spaced mussys" so you're comparing apples to oranges.

The severity of "pumped out of their gourd and can't clip a stiff gate" is not that bad, you just fall to your last bolt 

Failure modes and effects analysis is an engineering topic so if you're not familiar, it's easy to get confused.

A beautiful anchor under the Midnight Sun.

That to me looks like the perfect anchor. Vertically spaced bolts make me smile.

That’s a beautiful anchor! 

A couple recent offset anchors to add to the mix.

I have this question… should I have rotated the upper right hanger slightly more left? 

I position hangers so an imaginary line between the center of the head of the bolt and the inside bottom of the eye (the point where a carabiner or quicklink makes contact) is pointed in the direction of loading. But in your anchor it is very close and if anything, a torque on the righthand bolt from loading will tend to tighten the bolt so no problem. The bigger concern would be situations where loading creates a torque that loosens the bolt - typically lefthand bolts on anchors.