Half Dome's Snake Dike is being retrobolted - get involved!

Eric Craigwrote:

There is another. It would probably be about Grade O3 or O4 on the obscurity scale. I only know of one person who has done it, through an intermediary person. The route is the Harding Route, on Glacier Point Apron. I intend to go do it when I am in The Valley next fall. I absolutely do not recommend a not-so-experienced party go try it.

I believe that route along with the Hinterlands route were wiped out sometime around 2000 when that huge rockfall went straight down it. 

As someone who lives and climbs east of the Mississippi, I would like to climb these types of routes in Yosemite one day. Snake Dike sounds like one that should definitely be on my to-do list. I wonder if this controversy will change the overall experience of this route. Maybe those who climbed in the 80s in Yosemite felt something similar...

Salamanizer Skiwrote:

I believe that route along with the Hinterlands route were wiped out sometime around 2000 when that huge rockfall went straight down it. 

I casually eyeballed the line in May. The corner system it follows is there.
The word I got from my friend Bill is that Larry of Mountain Tools in Carmel CA has done the route, and recommends it. My curiosity is now really up. I think I will contact Larry and ask when he did it. I have been intending to have them sew up some slings anyway. 

D Fwrote:

If you climb long enough, especially in Yosemite National Park and the Sierra, you are certain to encounter poorly protected or unprotected terrain. You might find yourself off-route, or you might get bad or incomplete information about a climb. You might encounter a rescue scenario that forces you into dangerous territory.  

For decades, Snake Dike was an approachable and classic introduction to moderate poorly protected terrain for generations of Yosemite climbers. The route trained hundreds, if not thousands of climbers in the art of navigating low angle terrain with serious consequences.

It seems entirely possible to me that Snake Dike, in its original form, has prevented more injuries and more rescues than it has caused. 

100% and this is a HUGE factor in why I don't think bolts should be added.

Snake Dike was on my radar immediately as a beginning climber. But I new what the R rating meant and I waited until I was ready for it. I believe I did: Munginella, After Six, Southeast Buttress of Cathedral Peak, West Country, and Northwest Books first. Maybe even Nutcracker. 

By the time I did SD I was ready for it, and it was an amazing experience. Halfway up one of the run outs I remember thinking this is amazing, as long as I focus and don't do something stupid I'm perfectly fine. Then I remember being way out  above my pro on my first big wall after that and thinking, this isn't much different that SD, just stay focused.

There's a lot of talk here and all over social media about this. But actions speak louder than words, and it's a lot  cheaper to chop bolts than put them in, so thankfully the people who have thought this through will always have the upper hand. Whenever I hear people saying we should add bolts, it's almost always the same not well thought out arguments, (it's all about ego, if you don't like the bolts don't clip them) that a lot of people think at first, then many later realize why we have the prevailing ethic we do. But of course some people refuse to see it and stick to these arguments even after they've been explained to them. You could still be in favor of adding bolts, but you'd be making a fact based argument that you think they reduced risk of a long fall for some people is worth the loss of mental challenge / boldness required and experience on run outs that many people want to preserve. And you think the risk of perhaps encouraging some unprepared people to get on the route is less than the risk of the run outs.

Edited for some typos and to add the question of risk of unprepared people vs. run outs.

After 30 pages there’s still no consensus?!  If only there was a concept we could all rally around…

Google > but it’s not google its the Restore Half Dome sticker link. Posting links from the phone is busted.

Gloweringwrote:

100% and this is a HUGE factor in why I don't think bolts should be added.

Snake Dike was on my radar immediately as a beginning climber. But I new what the R rating meant and I waited until I was ready for it. I believe I did: Munginella, After Six, Southeast Buttress of Cathedral Peak, West Country, and Northwest Books first. Maybe even Nutcracker. 

But the time I did SD I was ready for it, and it was an amazing experience. Halfway up one of the run outs I remember thinking this is amazing, as long as I focus and don't do something stupid I'm perfectly fine. Then I remember being way out  above my pro on my first wall after that and thinking, this isn't much different that SD, just stay focused.

There's a lot of talk here and all over social media about this. But actions speak louder than words, and it's a lot  cheaper to chop bolts than put them in, so thankfully the people who have thought this through will always have the upper hand. Whenever I hear people saying we should add bolts, it's almost always the same not well thought out arguments, (it's all about ego, if you don't like the bolts skip them) that a lot of people think at first, then many later realize why we have the prevailing ethic we do. But of course some people refuse to see it and stick to these arguments even after they've been explained to them. You could still be in favor of adding bolts, but you'd be making a fact based argument that you think they reduced risk of a long fall for some people is worth the loss of mental challenge / boldness required and experience on run outs that many people want to preserve. 

Can this be made sticky at the top of this thread? Captures the essence without the other 29 pages

Adam Taitwrote:

After 30 pages there’s still no consensus?!  If only there was a concept we could all rally around…

Google > but it’s not google its the Restore Half Dome sticker link. Posting links from the phone is busted.

It may not be unanimous, but there is a clear consensus.  Chop the bolts!

Bb Ccwrote:

Can this be made sticky at the top of this thread? Captures the essence without the other 29 pages

Second that motion!

As most of you know, Sloan's extra bolts have been chopped.  The "R" rating has been restored.  The adventure is there waiting for those who feel ready for it.

I've been talking with a fair number of folk about this matter.  Most don't have a strong opinion either way, but lean towards "why not a few more bolts" which is the newer, lowest common denominator view of bolting ethics.   As time goes on, if we don't fight for keeping the spirit of rising up to the challenges (both in danger as well as technical difficulty) that most mountain adventures entail, we will slowly drift towards dumbing down our routes...both new routes as well as "revisiting" classic routes.  Indeed, climbing ethics will change with the times, but we need to fight and educate the new generation to grow their bravery slowly as their skill and experience develop.  Sure, there are days when we just want a safe, fun romp up some routes, but there are also routes that require grit and determination and grace under pressure.  These routes need to exist too.  Those seeking to increase safety need to realize that there needs to be room for both.  

Coming from the OG side of things, I suppose I can console myself with the realization that the "safety is everything...eliminate the risk" crew is always going to be more superficial, temporary and unmotivated compared to the savages that devote their lives to the craft of rock climbing and mountaineering.  Those who want to place extra bolts will always have less drive and ambition than those who want to minimize drilling.  Sadly, the rock is what suffers as old school ethics come under attack.  

Royal Robbins words still echo through time...

Better to raise ourselves than to lower the climb...

Thank you Jim!  And thanks to all who helped!

Please don’t 60 years later retro bolt snake dike. The climb is better as it is. Retrobolting will ruin the character of this “Ultra Classic”

I've never even been to Yosemite, but I remember reading a story written by a guy was was primarily a boulderer getting on Snake Dike many years ago. He was completely blown away by the experience and had a terrific time, runouts and all. I've never heard anyone say different about their time on Snake Dike. 

Dustin Stephenswrote:

And you think this is a potential DOJ case?? 😂😂😂

Who do you think US Attorneys work for? The prosecuting attorney in any Federal case is an employee of the DOJ and reports upward to the Attorney General of the United States. Who is currently Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche. Trump's former personal criminal attorney. 

Ben jaminwrote:

Thank You!

I was going to say.
There's something ironic about this statement, because yes I have been paying attention and clearly you (Andrew Rice) have not.

Here are the facts:

1. This type of infraction as I understand it is within the jurisdiction of the US District Court of the Eastern District of California within the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
Typically for this type of infraction in Yosemite, the cases are instead handled by a US Magistrate Judge. There is a high likelihood that whatever judge would not have been appointed by Trump and there is pretty much a zero percent chance anyone related to Trump's "DOJ" would have any idea this is even happening.
I believe the specific regulations are Title 36 of the CFR and the Wilderness Act of 1964.

2. There are multiple examples of individuals being prosecuted, some under Trump's presidency for violations of these or similar acts:
a) The Casey Nocket case   (more info here)
b) The Base Jumper Convictions (I don't agree with Base Jumping being illegal, just using it as an example)

All that being said, yes there is a precedent and yes it is realistic with sufficient evidence.
The big questions are just:

1. Can we prove with sufficient forensic and other evidence he used a power drill
2. Can we convince the NPS to bring the case to a judge
3. Is it the right course of action

I don't want to decide what to do for everyone, I'm just trying to present a logical argument for an alternative to consider beyond chopping and adding more bolts in perpetuity.

Hey Genius. Judges don't prosecute cases. They oversee them. To prosecute any crime in Yosemite requires the US Attorney for the Eastern District of California to decide to pursue a case. The current US Attorney for the Eastern District of CA is Eric Grant, appointed by Pam Bondi in 2025.  https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/staff-profile/us-attorney-eric-grant

Also, the Casey Nocket case you cite was prosecuted and resolved before Trump was even in office. 

*Akshually*, what do you even know about the law, Mr Rice? :)

Perhaps dustin and ben would like me to post screenshots of my paperwork from my yosemite case, prosecuted by.... the DOJ, with letterhead and all...for a parking ticket, I shit you not (3hr zoom trial for a literal parking ticket, I was so impressed by the use of resources for a $200 citation). tl,dr is that if they'll waste those kinds of resources on a parking ticket... I could certainly see them being willing to burn matches on something like this.

Christian Heschwrote:

*Akshually*, what do you even know about the law, Mr Rice? :)

Perhaps dustin and ben would like me to post screenshots of my paperwork from my yosemite case, prosecuted by.... the DOJ, with letterhead and all...for a parking ticket, I shit you not (3hr zoom trial for a literal parking ticket, I was so impressed by the use of resources for a $200 citation). tl,dr is that if they'll waste those kinds of resources on a parking ticket... I could certainly see them being willing to burn matches on something like this.

If this hasn't been posted previously, it needs to be!

https://www.climbing.com/community/john-long-responds-to-new-bolts-on-snake-dike/?scope=initial

Tim Stichwrote:

I've never even been to Yosemite, but I remember reading a story written by a guy was was primarily a boulderer getting on Snake Dike many years ago. He was completely blown away by the experience and had a terrific time, runouts and all. I've never heard anyone say different about their time on Snake Dike. 

Most of the people calling for more bolts have never climbed it. The Facebook threads are testament to this (spare your sanity and don’t read them)

The Gray Tradsterwrote:

If this hasn't been posted previously, it needs to be!

https://www.climbing.com/community/john-long-responds-to-new-bolts-on-snake-dike/?scope=initial

Love John Long, but he kind of lost me here saying the "end of the traditional great conquests" was ushered in by Norgay and Hillary’s use of bottled oxygen on Everest because it  "greatly increased their chances of success and survival..."

By that logic, use of safety equipment is wimpy stuff and pretty much the same as driving a golf cart around the back 9. Certainly using Totems, dynamic ropes, and modern shoes would be verboten. And I know that John doesn't disapprove of using good safety equipment.

Andrew Ricewrote:

By that logic, use of safety equipment is wimpy stuff and pretty much the same as driving a golf cart around the back 9. Certainly using Totems, dynamic ropes, and modern shoes would be verboten. And I know that John doesn't disapprove of using good safety equipment.

There is NO great adventure achievement in the past 100 years that compares with epics like Shackleton in the Antarctic done with little technology and zero chance of rescue.

Slight Edit added:  there are still plenty of ground up challenging amazing achievements in climbing.  and the tech only helps sometimes.  But More bolts to dumb a route down is not an improvement.  And rap bolting can never be in the same league of achievement as ground up first ascent routes.  Growing Up for example.