Half Dome has fallen.

Yeah I remember your brother. Good guy. 

Related discussions on ST about sloanification, nanooked, biting the hand that feeds you, etc., go back at least 22 years. 

Dustin Stephenswrote:

The GFM page is very poor style (equally with Sloan's) and should be taken down. Monetizing route maintenance is not good form, don't do it if you need to get paid for it.

I disagree.  The ASCA "monetizes" route maintenance in the sense that they solicit donations to support their tireless efforts to rebolt dangerous routes and add safer/simpler lower-offs (e.g. Musseys).  I have both helped with the labor as well as contributed cash to these efforts, and I firmly believe in what they're doing.

If "need agua" is volunteering his/her time and labor and gas to get these embarrassing new bolts added to SD, I don't see anything wrong with helping out via donations.

Nate Allenwrote:

I disagree.  The ASCA "monetizes" route maintenance in the sense that they solicit donations to support their tireless efforts to rebolt dangerous routes and add safer/simpler lower-offs (e.g. Musseys).  I have both helped with the labor as well as contributed cash to these efforts, and I firmly believe in what they're doing.

If "need agua" is volunteering his/her time and labor and gas to get these embarrassing new bolts added to SD, I don't see anything wrong with helping out via donations.

Wait, there is going to be even MORE bolts added? 

Photo of the 3rd pitch from FB. Those look like wedge bolts, and also larger than 3/8" (at least 10mm based on the nut size).

Cosmic Hotdogwrote:

amariuswrote:

...

I am not into the lore of the Snake Dike, but IIRC John Long was not the FA?

Here is what the FA said about SD in the linked article right above yours:

So, there you have it - FA says ADD MOOORE BOLTS!

Correct yeah, John Long was not one of the FAs, but he's a legend in his own right (and very well may show up in this thread since he's on MP). 

I'm just saying I agree with John's perspective. The FAs were Eric Beck, Jim Bridwell, & Chris Fredericks

---------------------------

1. This subject was already discussed and conclusive a few years ago that no new bolts were needed.

2. The route is already very overcrowded.

3. The mental part of the route is one of the main important intrinsic factors.

4. The person who had the major fall was off route and new bolts would not have helped. mountainproject.com/photo/2…

5. Additional bolts were already added long ago. "Steve Roper on the route's second ascent (and with the permission of the FA party), added a few bolts.

6. Only one of the FA climbers said he wanted a few more bolts. The others did not say they wanted more.

7. The time limit to dumb the route down has long Passed. At least 30 years ago. Thousands have done this route as is. At this point these 10,000 people who have done the route have more voice than than 1/3 of the FA party.  They ALL knew it was runout and that is just what they wanted.

8. In 1985 there were perhaps 50 sport routes in California. Now there are well over 10,000.

9. The new bolts are already being removed so this discussion is purely academic.

Nate Allenwrote:

I disagree.  The ASCA "monetizes" route maintenance in the sense that they solicit donations to support their tireless efforts to rebolt dangerous routes and add safer/simpler lower-offs (e.g. Musseys).  I have both helped with the labor as well as contributed cash to these efforts, and I firmly believe in what they're doing.

If "need agua" is volunteering his/her time and labor and gas to get these embarrassing new bolts added to SD, I don't see anything wrong with helping out via donations.

1.  As ALREADY explained, that guy is one of those who is REMOVING the new bolt abominations.

2.  The ASCA never adds bolts, regardless of possible runouts.  They only do bolt replacement.  That is the principle of valuing classic routes in this country.  In 1985 there were perhaps 50 sport routes in California.  Now there are well over 10,000.  No need to ruin old trad routes.

tom donnellywrote:

1.  As ALREADY explained, that guy is one of those who is REMOVING the new bolt abominations.

2.  The ASCA never adds bolts, regardless of possible runouts.  They only do bolt replacement.  That is the principle of valuing classic routes in this country.  In 1985 there were perhaps 50 sport routes in California.  Now there are well over 10,000.  No need to ruin old trad routes.

I think you are agreeing with Nate.  He said if need agua is volunteering their time to “get” them, as in remove them, not add them, and also spoke in favor as a contributor of the ASCA

Nate Allenwrote:

I disagree.  The ASCA "monetizes" route maintenance in the sense that they solicit donations to support their tireless efforts to rebolt dangerous routes and add safer/simpler lower-offs (e.g. Musseys).  I have both helped with the labor as well as contributed cash to these efforts, and I firmly believe in what they're doing.

Bull shit. You have not read their guidelines for using their hardware. To quote their BOLT REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT TECHNIQUES page:

“The ASCA does not provide hardware to add additional bolts to climbs.”

Edit: I’ll admit I may not be following your point. Sorry.  Still, the ASCA would not donate hardware to retrobolt Snake Dike.

what's the latest?

philip bonewrote:

what's the latest?

I'm curious as well...

...but I guess at this point, I'd prefer there are conversations happening within the local community and action is being taken to come to some local consensus and we will here about it when it's done.

Good luck all.

Went up last Friday 6/19:

Pitch 1: all hangers still gone, studs still there but not that obvious. Looked to be mostly 3/8" split shaft bolts. Only two were obvious and I took photos of those. They retrobolt line went straight up from the tree so I didn't bother to look that hard for them as I took the obvious diagonal path towards the roof. 

Pitch 2: first retro bolt added to the 4th class traverse from the anchors still had its hanger removed, stud with threads still sticking out of the rock. Three remaining retro bolts after the original bolt are still there. Weirdly placed so far from the dike that you have to reach way out from the climbing path to clip them. Really seems like a lot of these bolts were placed with no real thought applied; which tracks. 

Pitch 3: five or six retrobolts are still there; two added to the traverse and four added to the dike. Mix of bolt types, some bolts with a lot of thread showing outside of the rock. I stopped taking pictures before climbing this pitch. 

Later pitches. A few hangerless 3/8" bolts not on the topos are present here and there, not sure if these are new retros or older retros

Todd Berlierwrote:

I'm curious as well...

...but I guess at this point, I'd prefer there are conversations happening within the local community and action is being taken to come to some local consensus and we will here about it when it's done.

Good luck all.

It should be understood that there has always been local consensus around not retrobolting this route in the way that Sloan has. 

There has always been local consensus around removing those retrobolts that Sloan added as a testiment to his own ego and refusal to communicate with or listen to that local community. 

Fail Fallingwrote:

It should be understood that there has always been local consensus around not retrobolting this route in the way that Sloan has. 

There has always been local consensus around removing those retrobolts that Sloan added as a testiment to his own ego and refusal to communicate with or listen to that local community. 

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate this. My post was meant as support for valley locals working this out and reminder that MP is relatively insignificant in this process.

It's also trying to point out that we may think MP gives us a "say," it really doesn't.

"Later pitches. A few hangerless 3/8" bolts not on the topos are present here and there, not sure if these are new retros or older retros."

I don't remember any such studs when I did it long ago.

tom donnellywrote:

"Later pitches. A few hangerless 3/8" bolts not on the topos are present here and there, not sure if these are new retros or older retros."

I don't remember any such studs when I did it long ago.

Niether do I (my last time up was 6 years ago) but it was difficult to determine if they were last month recent or last few years recent

Alot of those bolts look almost unusably far from the dyke for normal person is that just perspective ?

Someone’s gotta take one for the team and take a running jump off the dike and sacrifice themselves to the ethics gods. Make sure to get the el cap kid ™’s media team on standby for the headline bait.

“new bolts precipitate worst snake dike accident in modern history”

bones heal, kinda… most of the time; 

The dike is eternal.

This is your chance to leave your mark on yosemite climbing history despite still occasionally cruxing out on 5.9

Michael Spiesbachwrote:

Alot of those bolts look almost unusably far from the dyke for normal person is that just perspective ?

Fail Fallingwrote:

Three remaining retro bolts after the original bolt are still there. Weirdly placed so far from the dike that you have to reach way out from the climbing path to clip them. Really seems like a lot of these bolts were placed with no real thought applied; which tracks. 

Fail Fallingwrote:

Went up last Friday 6/19:

Pitch 1: all hangers still gone, studs still there but not that obvious. Looked to be mostly 3/8" split shaft bolts. Only two were obvious and I took photos of those. They retrobolt line went straight up from the tree so I didn't bother to look that hard for them as I took the obvious diagonal path towards the roof. 

Pitch 2: first retro bolt added to the 4th class traverse from the anchors still had its hanger removed, stud with threads still sticking out of the rock. Three remaining retro bolts after the original bolt are still there. Weirdly placed so far from the dike that you have to reach way out from the climbing path to clip them. Really seems like a lot of these bolts were placed with no real thought applied; which tracks. 

Pitch 3: five or six retrobolts are still there; two added to the traverse and four added to the dike. Mix of bolt types, some bolts with a lot of thread showing outside of the rock. I stopped taking pictures before climbing this pitch.

Later pitches. A few hangerless 3/8" bolts not on the topos are present here and there, not sure if these are new retros or older retros

This is just sad he couldn't even do it right. I honestly worry about Sloan's mental health.