Half Dome's Snake Dike is being retrobolted - get involved!

pitch one cleaned

https://gofund.me/500292a61

owww owwwwwwww !!

need aguawrote:

pitch one cleaned

https://gofund.me/500292a61

owww owwwwwwww !!

Would caution anyone against donating to this anonymous GFM without actual proof of bolt removal from this person - anyone (including Erik himself, to pay for replacing the bolts that were removed) can string some hangers and quicklinks onto a cord. Without proof this was removed from Snake Dike, photos of the results on the wall that couldn't be taken by just any person climbing snake dike, etc, it seems pretty suspicious. I'd wait for Russ or one of the other people who have demonstrably been involved cosigns the Go Fund Me.

(removed because my suspicion was wrong, sorry! And thanks for your rapid successful removal of Sloans abomination to the route! ) 

I have a pair of bolt cutters arriving Thursday, and the hangers should be chopped by Friday evening. Will post selfies and maybe some fps footie too. 

Russ Bwrote:

Need agua messaged me on the 11th, stating he was the friend Jim Hornibrook spoke of in one of these threads. 

After looking over the account, rereading the messages,  thinking over my interactions with Sloan yesterday, and receiving a call at 1am last night that I didn't answer from a different number, I've grown quite suspicious of it being Sloan. 

That's OK. 

I have a pair of bolt cutters arriving Thursday, and the hangers should be chopped by Friday evening. Will post selfies and maybe some fps footie too. 

I wanna be Russ when i grow up.. Cheers brother. Thanks for doing to Lords work.. Bridwell would be proud of ya

Tal Mwrote: Would caution anyone against donating to this anonymous GFM without actual proof of bolt removal from this person - anyone (including Erik himself, to pay for replacing the bolts that were removed) can string some hangers and quicklinks onto a cord. Without proof this was removed from Snake Dike, photos of the results on the wall that couldn't be taken by just any person climbing snake dike, etc, it seems pretty suspicious. I'd wait for Russ or one of the other people who have demonstrably been involved cosigns the Go Fund Me.

If people feel inclined, there’s a link to report the fundraiser at the bottom of its page.

https://gofund.me/500292a61

Russ Bwrote:

I have emailed Sloan to inform him that no more bolts will be chopped, and all that he places on snake dike will have the hangers cut and left in place. I also let him know that if he continues, the hardware on any route in the valley with his name on the FA, will be pulled.

Let Sloan be the one who cannot see a way forward, without violence. 

am i reading this correctly? basically you are going to damage the hangers and leave them in place, and if they get "used" someone is going to get hurt? and people are cheering this? i think people's cheering is a bit misdirected here. why not just chop and clean like usual?

slimwrote:

am i reading this correctly? basically you are going to damage the hangers and leave them in place, and if they get "used" someone is going to get hurt? and people are cheering this? i think people's cheering is a bit misdirected here. why not just chop and clean like usual?

I am certain Russ will not leave the chopped hangers in a state where someone could clip them without realizing they are worthless.

Cleaning and patching can happen some time in the future.

slimwrote:

am i reading this correctly? basically you are going to damage the hangers and leave them in place, and if they get "used" someone is going to get hurt? and people are cheering this? i think people's cheering is a bit misdirected here. why not just chop and clean like usual?

Sloan has stated that he will be going back up to replace the bolts. 

I am going to make two cuts to the hangers, removing the vertical part that the carabiner clips into. I also have red flagging tape I'm going to wrap up under the first few hangers to alert people something is up before they get to them. 

Not quite sure what your imagining, but no one is going to be able to mistakenly clip a bolt hanger. 

I am not the one taking action, only paying attention to see how this all plays out. Deeply appreciate what Russ, Tanner, et al. are doing. I think Russ' described interaction with Sloan makes it clear that he intends to add more bolts again if his existing bullshit gets completely taken care of. So the logic would be that if the retrobolts become damaged enough using the bolt cutters that they will be visually obvious unsafe to clip for climbers just doing the route, then that makes the next move Sloan's. He has to clean up the damaged bolts and put new ones back in (money and time), add more bolts + hangers next to the damaged ones (money, time, and an even more flagrant offense), or do nothing. Obviously that last option is the best option for the time being. Then eventually things will be disappeared and completely cleaned up. But I think the risk in completely chopping and patching right now, would be that Sloan will just put new ones up right next to the patches and then we are back to this stage all over again. 

Edit to add: Thanks Russ for clarifying in perfect terms the intent. Appreciate your hard work and taking the needed action rather than just sitting in the morass. 

Russ Bwrote:

Sloan has stated that he will be going back up to replace the bolts. 

I am going to make two cuts to the hangers, removing the vertical part that the carabiner clips into. I also have red flagging tape I'm going to wrap up under the first few hangers to alert people something is up before they get to them. 

Not quite sure what your imagining, but no one is going to be able to mistakenly clip a bolt hanger. 

Hey Russ, I think what Slim is getting at, is how does this stop, prevent or deter Erik from adding more bolts?

Responding to an idea floated up-thread:

The notion of installing route direction signs (good god!) on Snake Dike so that climbers don't need to actually read the topo, read the rock, and/or employ route finding skills is preposterous insipidity of the first order. Route finding is an essential and foundational  traditional rock climbing skill. Signs on the route would eviscerate the experience of climbing a trad route on Half Dome and irretrievably diminish - or eliminate - the experience of an on-sight ascent. Myriads of wankers have successfully climbed Snake Dike! There is no valid need, rationale, or justification for any effort whatsoever directed towards eliminating this 60 year old platinum tip mega-classic climb and replacing it with an uninspired, reductive, attempt at a 'wanker proof' climbing experience. 

Russ Bwrote:

Sloan has stated that he will be going back up to replace the bolts. 

I am going to make two cuts to the hangers, removing the vertical part that the carabiner clips into. I also have red flagging tape I'm going to wrap up under the first few hangers to alert people something is up before they get to them. 

Not quite sure what your imagining, but no one is going to be able to mistakenly clip a bolt hanger. 

Leaving a very sharp chunk of metal on a popular route is not exactly a community service. 

Max Rwrote:

Leaving a very sharp chunk of metal on a popular route is not exactly a community service. 

Based on what Russ has written over several posts, I have no trouble assuming he knows these things.
I don’t know how exactly he is going to go about it, but I am confident he will do an acceptable job of it.

Just in case someone doesn’t understand, removal of the bolt hanger flange that you clip, and leaving the flange that is flat on the rock, would/should/could facilitate bolt removal.

All things considered, Russ’s plan is sound.

All those holes should never have been drilled. Sloan could have done a nice but conservative job, in line with the minimum of Eric Beck’s suggestions.  Maybe that would have been left alone. Maybe not.

Max Rwrote:

Leaving a very sharp chunk of metal on a popular route is not exactly a community service. 

Sorry for not laying out that I will be bringing a hammer along to beat down any sharp edges to mitigate this. Do you think my dammer will do, or should I lug the 2.5lbs sledge up? 

It's real easy to poke holes in things without offering effective solutions while sitting on your ass behind a screen. Trust this has been thought though and the idea comes from a senior member of the community who knows Sloan personally enough to have had the foresight to suggest this right from the start.

Todd Berlier wrote:

Hey Russ, I think what Slim is getting at, is how does this stop, prevent or deter Erik from adding more bolts?

It forces him to either pull, patch and do the job right, or commit further reputational suicide by placing bolts next to the ones he already trashed the route with, which I will gladly go right back up and do the same thing to the very week he does it. 

The damage he does to the route can be handled in due time, after he gets the hint that he is a stain on the community and agrees publicly to stop or leaves the park. 

Perhaps there is a lawyer here that can come up with grounds for a civil suit against Erik Sloan.  Tying him up in court might discourage him from damaging the route any further than he already has.

David Baltzwrote:

Perhaps there is a lawyer here that can come up with grounds for a civil suit against Erik Sloan.  Tying him up in court might discourage him from damaging the route any further than he already has.

As I understand it, an individual could not file a suit against Sloan for this. However, we could request the National Park Service Climbing Rangers to do so. The reality is that he broke the law by using a power drill and he is not going to go up there and re drill all of them by hand. 

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to do so. It's in the parks best interest to stop this and prevent the unauthorized use of power drills for these exact reasons before it gets out of hand. Given the time it took to drill these and potential forensic evidence of the holes themselves, in addition to prior history with ASCA, and testimony from multiple people, it seems like you could reasonably prove he broke the law beyond a reasonable doubt. Not sure what the bar is though. I'm not a lawyer. 

Perhaps even a stake out of some kind could be in order. Chop the bolts and wait for him to come back and document it to catch him red handed.

It's worth thinking through the secondary implications though, especially given the land management plans under discussion currently. I don't think anyone wants undue restrictions. However this may be an alternative course of action that prevents a bunch of bolts being added and chopped, and may provide additional financial and other access deterrents to Sloan.

I'm not convinced it's the right course of action per se, but I think it definitely deserves to be considered.

Lovegasoline Lovewrote:

Responding to an idea floated up-thread:

The notion of installing route direction signs (good god!) on Snake Dike so that climbers don't need to actually read the topo, read the rock, and/or employ route finding skills is preposterous insipidity of the first order. Route finding is an essential and foundational  traditional rock climbing skill. Signs on the route would eviscerate the experience of climbing a trad route on Half Dome and irretrievably diminish - or eliminate - the experience of an on-sight ascent. Myriads of wankers have successfully climbed Snake Dike! There is no valid need, rationale, or justification for any effort whatsoever directed towards eliminating this 60 year old platinum tip mega-classic climb and replacing it with an uninspired, reductive, attempt at a 'wanker proof' climbing experience. 

I think a little sign that may help prevent another person from being maimed at that spot where lots of people have gone off route isn’t going to “eviscerate the experience of climbing a trad route on Half Dome and irretrievably diminish - or eliminate - the experience of an on-sight ascent.” LOL. Now if someone said add bolts there for route finding (which some have) I’d think you’d have a point. 

The reality is that he broke the law by using a power drill

Perhaps I missed the memo - how do you know he used a power drill?

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Perhaps I missed the memo - how do you know he used a power drill?

13 holes miraculously appearing from a guy kicked out of the ASCA for refusing to stop using a power drill in YNP and trying to make money for doing so is Sloan's MO.

He has been observed using one many times and I believe previously cited by NPS for drill use, altering the base by using tools for rock removal and vegetation destruction etc.

Will that stand up in court beyond a reasonable doubt? Probably not.

But this is not a court of law it is the court of past and present behavior. IMO, the onus is on Sloan to prove that somehow, as incredible as it would be to believe, that he drilled by hand (which would only make it douchebaggery instead of illegal douchebaggery).

So its "because you said so?"

Why the button heads, then?