Tahquitz & Suicide litters

Many years ago, Stokes litters were placed at several locations at Tahquitz & Suicide as a means of allowing climbers to initiate and support their own rescue efforts- at that time, rescue resources were pretty limited. The specific location of the litters has varied somewhat over the years, but they’ve been a common feature for quite some time.

There was definitely a time when they were used for this purpose- the common practice after a rescue/evacuation occurred was that the litters would be brought to the Idyllwild Fire Department, and the efforts of local climbers would bring them back to their location. They were also usually removed at the end of the climbing season so they wouldn’t get damaged by winter conditions. Here is a picture of two litters that were left at the base of the Weeping Wall over a particularly heavy winter- the snowpack off the wall badly crushed them:

This is a recent picture of the litter at the base of the Weeping Wall:

In recent years, though, these litters just don’t seem to get used in the same way as they did in the past. Each time I hike past them, I wonder when any of them were last used, and the reasons for that- it seems logical this is probably due to a general decline in self-reliance amongst climbers, the proliferation of cell phones, and the improved EMS/rescue resources (i.e. CalFire, RMRU) that quickly respond and usually use their own equipment for extrication.

I’m curious about the views of other users of this area on this matter- is there really any point in the litters being there any longer? Can anyone recall a climber-lead rescue where they were used in the last ten years or so? Personally, I don’t have a strong view one way or the other, and could see an argument to leave them or remove them (this said, I am still attracted to the apparently now quaint idea of climber self-rescue). Please share your thoughts on leaving them in place, or discontinuing the practice.

James Jen previously spearheaded an effort to replace the litters, what ever came of it? Found link: mountainproject.com/forum/t…

I believe at the time my gist was “Go ahead, knock yourself out, but nobody is going to bother to use them and probably shouldn’t anyway as there’s more qualified help within easy reach”.

After using the rmru litters for awhile I can understand why they never get used. RMRU will bring their own litter up, and Im pretty sure the helicopter has their own as well. The ones RMRU bring up are half the weight, and have a wheel. I don't want to imagine the difficulty of trying to hand over hand an injured person in one of the litters down some of those steeper sections close to the wall. But can't say If they're still worth it to be there, I don't even live in state anymore

I think they're definitely worth it for that one in a zillion chance that it would be helpful. But, I won't be hauling those behemoths up the talus...

"boomer ranting"

Someone should start a thread about the current level of self-reliance among climbers these days. It would be fun to watch the boomers/GenX/millenials go at it.

Re: James Jen's thread: I'm pretty sure the placement of these litters pre-dates SCMA & Secor- they likely assisted the replacement process at some point, and SCMA was stashing one of their own litters at the base of Lunch Rock for a while, but I don't think they started the practice.

If someone can recall a relatively recent incident where they were used by anyone, it would be interesting to hear about.

A few days ago, I talked with a 40+ year member & past president of RMRU, and the current president of RMRU, about those litters. Their view was there was a time when they were useful to RMRU in their efforts, but that was a very long time ago, and they would not use them any longer- much preferring the newer, stronger equipment they own. The feeling of both of these persons was that RMRU wouldn't miss them.

I also emailed with Bob Gaines- his view was to leave them, on the off chance someone might one day find them useful.

"Reality is that there are few scenarios where climbers using those litters make sense. Busted ankle? Probably easier to get down without one. Anything more serious? Better to let the professionals handle it because they are likely to be much faster and have the right equipment to deal with a potential spinal or otherwise unseen injury that could be time-critical."

I'd have to generally agree with the above quote. When I started this thread, I didn't have a strong feeling, but leaned slightly towards removing them. Now I'm leaning slightly towards leaving them. It would be nice, though, to see the locations standardized a bit more (they have varied over the years, esp. at Tahquitz), to see the replacement system more consistent, and either a better season-end removal process or placement so they don't get trashed by winter conditions.

Found this gear clipped to the litter at the base of the Weeping Wall today.

Anybody have any idea what the story is with this gear?

apogeewrote:

Found this gear clipped to the litter at the base of the Weeping Wall today.

Anybody have any idea what the story is with this gear?

Posted 6 days ago on Facebook Southern California Climbers page, along with a photo:

" hello climbers, I found some old, old, Chouinard-branded equipment forgotten in a tree at Suicide rock.  I left everything hanging on the rescue stretcher"

Well, it’s gone now…hopefully it made it back in the hands of the owner.

apogee said:

" I'm pretty sure the placement of these litters pre-dates SCMA & Secor- they likely assisted the replacement process at some point, and SCMA was stashing one of their own litters at the base of Lunch Rock for a while, but I don't think they started the practice."

When I first hang around the RCS in 1976, the practice of maintaining the litters on Tahquitz and Suicide was talked about yearly and money was allocated to it from the budget. There were three litters then. One at Lunch Rock, one at the Tahquitz friction descent and one at the base of Weeping Wall at Suicide. I recall several rescues in the 80s and early 90s that used the litters. From 1985, SCMA just continued the practice of purchasing and placing the litters there till the 2007-2009 or so.

How viable would they be today? If you can get down on your own, you most likely don't need one and if the injury is severe enough, pro help and assistance are most likely much safer and faster. The maintenance and care of these litters is not totally easy thing to do either.  They suffer from snow loads, need replacement and people need to carry them up. Who would do it on yearly basis?

All good questions. I think it would be conceivable to return to a system of replacing them and removing at season end, but that only seems to make sense if there was an actual need. These days, rescue resources in Riverside County are far better than they were 20+ years ago, and there is the ability to notify/activate EMS very quickly and easily- this wasn't the case in years past, and self-reliance among climbers was higher, if only simply because of these realities.

Currently, there is almost zero likelihood that Riverside Mountain Rescue, Idyllwild Fire Dept, or the Riverside Sheriff's SAR team would ever use those litters. Therefore, if anyone ever did wind up using them, it would be climbers themselves- and given the proximity/capability of SAR resources (not to mention the actual capability of climbers to do such a thing), it seems extremely unlikely that is going to ever happen.

As mentioned upthread, I am very much on the fence as to whether they should stay or go- last dialogue I had with Bob Gaines pushed me to the side of leave 'em there as a 'just in case' measure, but I could easily be convinced otherwise. For many years, those litters have been simply sitting there, deteriorating with the weather, with no known use. Other views would be interesting to hear.

apogeewrote:

As mentioned upthread, I am very much on the fence as to whether they should stay or go- last dialogue I had with Bob Gaines pushed me to the side of leave 'em there as a 'just in case' measure, but I could easily be convinced otherwise. For many years, those litters have been simply sitting there, deteriorating with the weather, with no known use. Other views would be interesting to hear.

Tough decision! If they're to stay, they've got to be maintained. Otherwise I'm on the no litter side. But, that one off chance... could save a life.

Bumping this thread for more views of the status of the litters at Tahquitz & Suicide. These litters continue to deteriorate due to exposure to the environment, and no reports have been heard of anyone using them for many, many years. As expressed upthread, while there was a time that these litters did serve a productive purpose, the advancement in SAR technology, resources and access makes them very obsolete. 

The ICA would like to hear more views about these litters, either here in this thread or by contacting the ICA directly. The removal would be a worthy service project at the upcoming 'No Idyll Hands' Climber Stewardship Day on Saturday, June 13.

Based on the information provided above, it seems reasonable to remove them and not replace them. RMRU should have the final say, but if they don’t use them, I can’t see a situation where climbers would use them. Moreover, if Bob Gaines and others haven’t heard of them being used, removal during the ICA clean up would be appreciated by all. They will only degrade further with time.

On the other hand, it's cool to see these broken, bent and beat down liters that have sat Idyll for many, many years.  Artifacts. I guess I changed my tune from above.

I bivied one time at Hinterland and used the bent beat up litter as a frame for a crude shelter. It helped me sleep a little bit. So there's that.

Likewise, I've vacillated on my view of this over the last few years- a recent hike past the litter at the base of Fingertrip has me leaning towards removing them. There just doesn't seem to be any practical reason for them to be there any longer (for all the reasons mentioned in this thread), and while I have as much nostalgia for their presence as anyone else who has climbed up here for decades, the reality of their non-use outweighs the soft spot in my heart. (A recent convo with Bob Gaines had him leaning towards removal as well.) In my mind, a fundamental principle of climbing in wild places has been to create minimal impacts to the places that climbers venture, and while these litters served a very useful purpose in the past, their rusting hulks are now only creating a physical impact on the place.

The history of the litters goes way back.  Willits called the large ledge above the first short chimney on Angels Fright “Litter Ledge” as the litter was secured to a large pine, (no longer there also).  It was placed there because it was secure from potential vandalism and it was just assumed that anyone needing it had the skills to easily access it.  By the early 70’s it had been moved to Lunch rock.

I’ve only been involved in one episode where we used it and that was at least 15-20 years ago.  We’d just finished up the day and were packing up at Lunch Rock when an attractive young woman in a panicked state and speaking in a language we couldn’t understand came running over from the south side.

Turns out there were three European tourists checking out the rock when her significant other was clocked right above the right eye by something knocked down from the vicinity of Fingertrip.  He had a hole in his forehead the size of a quarter.  I wrapped it up with a surplus store GI issue gunshot bandage and we got him into the litter, strapped him in with webbing and the five of us started down the lunch Rock trail.  Since I was the tallest, I got point and every stumble sent the litter into me.  That trip down was maybe the most exhausting thing any of the five of us ever did.  The killer though was when we got to the road the ambulance was parked about 200 yards up the hill and the collected fire department just watched and never offered to help with the final carry.

Now even for a sprained ancle a cell phone summons a helicopter.  (been there for one of those too)  Maybe leave the backboard at Lunch Rock, but the rest have outlived their usefulness.

The question of the status of the litters at Tahquitz & Suicide rocks has been posed to numerous persons and agencies in the last few years. Among those consulted:

*Climbing community, and those with significant climbing history in this area (MP forum, Bob Gaines, Kevin Powell, others)
*Climbing organizations: So California Mountaineers Association
*Other Local Climbing Organizations: Friends of Joshua Tree, Allied Climbers of San Diego
*SAR/EMS resources: Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit
*Land Managers: USFS San Jacinto Ranger District

While many have expressed nostalgic connection with these litters over the many decades they have been there, there has been virtually universal agreement (or indifference) that as conditions have evolved, they have outlived their purpose and need, and are simply creating a negative visual impact on these wilderness areas. (Thoughts or comments are still very much welcome- please post up here in this thread, or by contacting the Idyllwild Climbers Alliance at our website.)

Accordingly, the removal of these litters from both Tahquitz & Suicide rocks will likely occur as one of the service projects at the June 13, 2026 Climber Stewardship Day. We hope to see much of the climbing community on this day, assisting with this project and several others as a means to ‘give back’ to this beautiful climbing area. 

To me they’re mostly an interesting historical artifact and a reminder of the seriousness of several of the climbing routes. IMO there’s some value to that, but I’m fine with their removal

Andre Ribeirowrote:

To me they’re mostly an interesting historical artifact and a reminder of the seriousness of several of the climbing routes. IMO there’s some value to that, but I’m fine with their removal

I have the same take. Overall, it makes sense to me to remove them at this point.

The litter at Hinterland was so badly damaged it was just junk littering a beautiful place. I cut it up and hauled it out last year.