New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #42

Worth reposting:

 “But every climb is not for every climber; the ultimate climbs are not democratic. The fortunate climbs protect themselves by being unprotectable and remain a challenge that can be solved only by boldness and commitment backed solidly by technique.”

Doug Robinson

 If I choose to attempt such a climb, I’m solely responsible for my actions.

But what about the climbing community?

WF WF51 wrote:

 If I choose to attempt such a climb, I’m solely responsible for my actions.

But what about the climbing community?

The guide books easily make it clear what type of risk the climb entails, though I've never done a climb where this was not obvious from the ground or early on the pitch.

From the ground I saw a bolt. Nice looking face. I went up. That was the only one. I had some other gear (Tuolumne). It was tricky but I managed. Sometime later I discovered it was a victim of chopping. Attractive nuisance?

Victor Creazzi wrote:

The guide books easily make it clear what type of risk the climb entails, though I've never done a climb where this was not obvious from the ground or early on the pitch.

Exactly, just find other routes.

Why risk injury? If you can’t effectively free solo something don’t climb R or X rated climbs.

I think D Robinson and his contemporaries on the East side neglected to document routes deliberately.
Far be it from me to presume I grasp the intention of a guide book. Perhaps chaos mitigation.
Can a boomer also be a gooner?

I’m not sure if we are of two minds or two camps regarding risk. 

philip bone wrote:

I think D Robinson and his contemporaries on the East side neglected to document routes deliberately. 

Guide books weren’t necessarily intended to keep people safe. They just told people how to get there and roughly how climbs were rated.

Many of us climbed without guide books. It wasn’t a boldness thing, just availability.

Generally, it’s pretty easy to spot a single pitch climb looking up at it to gauge the difficulty and danger. If you can’t see that it’s a potential bloodbath from the ground, you’d either have to bail and lose a piece, or find another safer path up.

Completely different in the modern world. I’m getting beta from AI telling me exactly which routes could best suit me.   

Alex Smith wrote:

and this is why a 5.9 2 hours from LA hasn't seen a documented ascent in 30 years.

just like real estate, the boomer trad FA ethics are holding all the cards

that's fine though, the kids are in the gyms are warming up on your gym projects 

Yup. The world keeps spinning...

Lori Milas wrote:

I don't know why but my attraction to octopuses has grown, kind of become an obsession, and finally I decided to check out giving one a home.  It's a huge commitment, and I've knocked down one obstacle after another.  They take a lot of care and need interaction and play.  They make a lot of mess. They are escape artists, so you have to be careful. They only live 1 1/2 years.  I thought I'd start with the aquarium and get some prices.  Whatever I do has to begin way before the octopus is ever brought home.  The water has to be 'mature'... run long enough to acquire healthy bacteria long in advance.  So I'm holding the whole idea with open hands as I head towards it day by day.  At any point I can say 'no, too much' and pass.  But maybe I could also give a small rescue some good months.  

Tony's been giving the idea the stink eye... he bought me a stuffed octopus, probably hoping that would be enough.     

If you decide on an aquarium, keep a few fish for a year before you try an octopus.  Make sure that you get something plenty large and that it has a well thought out sump to go with it.  It will need to have room for a heater, protein skimmer, filter media, probably some live rock, and a return pump.  There are a variety of plumbing options to make the filtration almost silent.

Alex Smith wrote:

just like real estate, the boomer trad FA ethics are holding all the cards

First of all, regarding your 'boomer' ageist comments, F*** You. That shit doesn't make for a productive discussion any more than this response.

So what you are advocating is that any route that is too scary for you should be retro-protected in a manner that feels ok to you (or your 'community')?

apogee wrote:

First of all, regarding your 'boomer' ageist comments, F*** You. That shit doesn't make for a productive discussion any more than this response.

So what you are advocating is that any route that is too scary for you should be retro-protected in a manner that feels ok to you (or your 'community')?

^^^

This.

Especially the first sentence.

Trained by MAGA to categorize and then disparage? Or did it just come naturally?

From ethics to octopus this thread has it all. 

Alex Smith wrote:

Im GenX, how would those 60 and older like to be addressed?

Its not about me, the lack of MP ticks speaks for itself

I prefer to be called "Lord Ward, Master of the Known Universe" but it hasn't gotten too much traction except from my daughter in jest....

Alex Smith wrote:

Im GenX, how would those 60 and older like to be addressed?

Its not about me, the lack of MP ticks speaks for itself

How about just being addressed respectfully?

I try not to categorize people by things they can't change and then belittle or look down on them for it (although I probably fail in this regarding certain people who support pedophile con-men for national office).

Go back to your original post and substitute one of many other categories (women, for example, instead of "boomers") and perhaps you'll see my point? Or maybe you already saw it.

And this isn't even close to an issue affected by age anyway. I know lots of people in the 20 to 50 age bracket who fully embrace the "don't add bolts ethic." Many of them embrace it because they recognize that anything else would just lead to unmitigated chaos.

There is no "community" and it would be impossible to get any group of climbers to agree on:

1. Which routes to retro-bolt, or

2. How to retro-bolt. All routes? A bolt every five feet? One every 30 inches?

Unmitigated chaos and rock destruction while members of "the community" fight out who gets to decide and who gets to do.

Brad Young wrote:

I try not to categorize people by things they can't change and then belittle or look down on them for it (although I probably fail in this regarding certain people who support pedophile con-men for national office).

Not that you need it but you have my forgiveness for your failure in this case. 

Alex Smith wrote:

Its not about me, the lack of MP ticks speaks for itself

The same could be said about most 5.14's, I don't hear a lot of you suggesting that we should chip these to 5.12 to become more accessible.  Why is the mental challenge of a route less important than it's physical difficulty?

I'm not a big fan of bouldering( cuz my back doesn't like it), but I don't suggest we bolt bolders for my convenience.  Why is this any different?

I love that a couple of sub-par routes in Josh can spark so much introspective discussion.

Climbing there is actually *way down* and there isn't enough climbers to fill up the classics.  Perma draws might help, but I've been speculating about fixed top ropes on things with anchors.

Murf wrote:

I love that a couple of sub-par routes in Josh can spark so much introspective discussion.

Climbing there is actually *way down* and there isn't enough climbers to fill up the classics.  Perma draws might help, but I've been speculating about fixed top ropes on things with anchors.

While I suspect you're being tongue in cheek here I've actually seen something like this at a crag. Namely the Mokule'ia on Oahu. To quote from the MP page on it.

"This area is equipped to be easily top-roped. Most of the routes will have strings running from the ground to the anchor and back to the ground so you can clove hitch your rope and pull it through the anchors at the top."

I don't know what the motivation for this was but I know of two other areas where the land manager/owners forbid cliff top access which necessitated the installation of fixed anchors at the top of every route. Not just for top roping but both areas had gear routes where the tradition after leading them was walking off or walking to anchors on other routes. But the land owner/manager has the final say.

Norm Larson wrote:

From ethics to octopus this thread has it all. 

We’re just getting started. Lol