Vegas Rescue Team - Multiple Red Rock Accident Recaps

Topics include: LVMPD SAR team structure, Red Rock Canyon, helicopter rescue operations, 911 communication protocols, volunteer SAR requirements, Dave Van Buskirk's legacy, preventable versus unpreventable accidents, risks, double rack philosophy, how SAR changes your climbing, and why tax dollars—not rescue fees—fund Las Vegas search and rescue operations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh3O3FTURw4&t=5013s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh3O3FTURw4&t=5013s 

I fixed your link (for some reason a straight copy/paste here doesn't leave a usable link - one must add a single space to the end of the copy/paste.

Thanks for posting.

EDIT: Friends and I did Armatron up Juniper Canyon about one year ago. The video is almost three hours long. Is there any chance that it speaks to what I am told was a compound fractured femur from a nasty fall on that route in around March of 2025? If so would you be willing to give the time at which that information appears in the video (if you know from the top of your head)? Thanks.

Really great episode of an already great podcast. I enjoyed that one a lot

Great interview with some interesting insight. The hand slap response was super funny. 

lvmpdsar is a good follow on IG. They post summaries of climbing rescues not long after they happen, for example:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DVW9ZrKEsM9/ 

Featuring a crazy helmet photo and detailed comments from the patient.

Vegas SAR posts a climber rescue in Red Rock once or twice a week on Facebook but the AAC Accidents in climbing report each year somehow only ends up reporting only a couple of them per year for Nevada.  Red Rock has become horrible with how many climbers have no basic self rescue skills, get on routes they have no chance of finishing, and just expect a helicopter descent when in over their heads.

Brad Youngwrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh3O3FTURw4&t=5013s 

I fixed your link (for some reason a straight copy/paste here doesn't leave a usable link - one must add a single space to the end of the copy/paste.

Thanks for posting.

EDIT: Friends and I did Armatron up Juniper Canyon about one year ago. The video is almost three hours long. Is there any chance that it speaks to what I am told was a compound fractured femur from a nasty fall on that route in around March of 2025? If so would you be willing to give the time at which that information appears in the video (if you know from the top of your head)? Thanks.

There definitely is haha it comes up about half way through. Between 1:20 and 1:55 mark 

Adam Wwrote:

Vegas SAR posts a climber rescue in Red Rock once or twice a week on Facebook but the AAC Accidents in climbing report each year somehow only ends up reporting only a couple of them per year for Nevada.  Red Rock has become horrible with how many climbers have no basic self rescue skills, get on routes they have no chance of finishing, and just expect a helicopter descent when in over their heads.

I agree that Red Rock accidents are underrepresented in ANAC so I looked into this a couple years ago. There used to be regional editors and ours was not too actively engaged at that time. I just did some searching and cannot find that is even a thing anymore. It seems now that the AAC relies on those "directly familiar with the circumstances of the accident" to send in a report and there are no longer regional editors (?). There seems to be one national editor now and a push for the accident report to be in the words of those directly involved.

Link to form: AAC Accident Report Form
Article about new editor

I believe that one of the reasons Red Rock see so many accidents is because of its reputation for being "soft". SAR does a great service by posting these reports on social media so the word gets out that accidents do occur here. It would be great to see more show up in ANAC. Maybe the answer is to post a link to the form when SAR puts up the post with a reminder that those involved can remain anonymous? I'm sure people usually read up on their rescue.

And maybe a link to this form should be stickied to the top of the injuries/accidents forum here on MP?

Great interview, this guy's a class act! Thanks for sharing!

Regarding the Dream Safari accident, there was a Climbing Mag article that clears up some more details about how the extra fall distance came into play.

One possible reason why the nut placement carabiner may have unclipped from the alpine draw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlKLS9eK28 

From the Climbing article:

Before his fall, Jackman and his partner, Danny Urioste, both veteran climbers, were flowing up the wall. It was a low gravity day, and stoke was high. Approaching the toughest moves of Safari’s second pitch, which follows a thin seam, Jackman tried to fit a blue finger-tip-sized Totem, but couldn’t find a placement he was happy with. “I plugged it in, but only three lobes engaged, so it didn’t feel great,” Jackman told Climbing. “I didn’t want to rely on shitty gear, so I pulled it out and reracked it.”

Jackman had a bomber nut a few feet below him. “It was this gold [#7] DMM offset, in a money placement,” he said. With this nut backing him up, and the crux well within his ability, he decided to keep climbing.

...the nut, the highest piece in the seam, was fairly bomber, just like Jackman thought. “It had its carabiner clipped to it, with an alpine sling hanging off of that carabiner.”

Oddly, there was no carabiner on the rope side.

What was learned, through talking with the belayer, was that a lone wiregate carabiner, undamaged, slid down the rope and came to rest on Jackman’s tie-in knot after he fell. The carabiner he used had somehow become unclipped from the sling during the fall.

The belayer said that when Jackman fell, he could feel the rope start to go tight, as the nut held the fall. “There was a very specific moment where he thought, ‘Oh, this won’t be so bad,’”. But then all of a sudden, there was that dreaded pop, and the rope went slack again, and then the victim continued to fall.

Oof, yeah, if one strand of an open loop sling extended alpine draw runs across the gate during a fall, the biner can come unclipped. Rare but definitely documented before. Probably we should all be using single-strand rabbit runners for extendable alpines to avoid this. Although they might be less useful for other things. 

For critical extended clips I like to use an elastic hair tie doubled/tripled/etc to cinch down the runner and carabiner. Not 100% fool proof and takes a bit of anticipation, but on critical pieces it’s a nice thing to have on my standard rack. 

M Clunewrote:

For critical extended clips I like to use an elastic hair tie doubled/tripled/etc to cinch down the runner and carabiner. Not 100% fool proof and takes a bit of anticipation, but on critical pieces it’s a nice thing to have on my standard rack. 

That can still be dangerous: https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/dont-put-rubber-bands-on-an-open-sling 

The linked article recommends girth hitching the sling to the biner if you really want to keep it in place (at the cost of some strength reduction of course)

Apologies for my contribution or any confusion it caused.

One way I try to mitigate this unclipping phenomenon is to use 2 carabiners on the alpine draw at the rope connection when I can. This will mainly happen when I make a cam placement because the cam has a racking biner I can clip the sling to, and then use the pair of biners that came with the alpine draw to clip to the rope - ideally gates reversed.

Like in Vegas, it's always a crap shoot!

Carrying a locker draw (i.e., a locking carabiner on either side) is helpful when you've got a route that has an absolutely critical placement or bolt. The edelrid slider lockers work well for this with how fast and easy it is to one handed open and close them

The distinction between preventable and unpreventable accidents is such a heavy topic for climbers. I appreciate that they dive into the "double rack philosophy" too. It is one thing to have the gear, but another to understand how a SAR perspective changes the way you actually approach a lead or a technical transition.

It's seemed like they've posted multiple rescues per day the past week, half of them people getting benighted without notable incident/injury. 

C'mon people - buy the ticket, take the ride. I hate to be callous but the lows in the canyon are above 50-55 degrees at this point. HTFU and hunker down for a (not even cold enough to shiver) bivy.

Yesterday's embarrassing rescue. Getting benighted 4 pitches up Epi (on your way up) is silly enough, but to call for an injury-free rescue at a ledge stance on a warm night is just nuts.

I'm not normally in favor of making rescued parties pay rescue fees, but there needs to be some sort of 'minimum viable subsidized rescue' threshold beyond which SAR just says 'nah, you're good'. 

MattHwrote:

It's seemed like they've posted multiple rescues per day the past week, half of them people getting benighted without notable incident/injury. 

C'mon people - buy the ticket, take the ride. I hate to be callous but the lows in the canyon are above 50-55 degrees at this point. HTFU and hunker down for a (not even cold enough to shiver) bivy.

Yesterday's embarrassing rescue. Getting benighted 4 pitches up Epi (on your way up) is silly enough, but to call for an injury-free rescue at a ledge stance on a warm night is just nuts.

I'm not normally in favor of making rescued parties pay rescue fees, but there needs to be some sort of 'minimum viable subsidized rescue' threshold beyond which SAR just says 'nah, you're good'. 

Matt, I have spent the past 20 yrs trying to point out the obvious regarding this subject, particularly at Red Rock.  I can assure you that you are just spinning your wheels.  What seems reasonable to you and me is not what the current climbing community wants.  Like everything in life, climbing is just a reflection of society at large, in search of the perfect world.  Take your shoes off at airports whilst  taxpayers fund a huge new bureaucracy in TSA.  Flying has never been more miserable and less efficient. 

Taxpayers funding self inflicted rescues that diverts from folks who really do need help.  No rapping.  No leaving your cams behind if needed.  Just catch a ride. Why not I guess.  I make sure to live in a place that does not do this.  One of my citified neighbors called wildlife control to remove a mother cougar and her two cubs from denning between our properties.  They asked him if he had been injured by the lions.  He said no.  They said, well if they attack you, give us a call.  For once, logic ruled.  I fucking loved it. That is a reflection of where I live.  Native lands run by native folks who care more about their environment then the entitled class's needs.

I use to argue for construction permit caps in Vegas.  Where is all the water going to come from I would ask.  Local residents real estate values would only rise to their benefit if you capped permits I would espouse.  Blank stares was the main response.   I have never lived in a big city, nor would ever.  No skin off my back.  Live and let live.  Will be an interesting next few years.  Keep spending 10s of millions saving folks cams and ropes

Yeah Matt that Epi one caught my eye too.

"It was determined that the climbers were unprepared to continue the climb into the night. They also were unable to self rescue and rappel off the climb as they only brought one rope."

"This party brought only one rope, one headlamp, moved slower than they anticipated, and got themselves in over their heads, resulting in them making the choice to call for rescue."

This rescue is one of very, very few where it's a little shameful to call SAR, in my opinion. Very unprepared and they found themselves inconvenienced, so they used SAR resources. 

Dow Williamswrote:

Matt, I have spent the past 20 yrs trying to point out the obvious regarding this subject, particularly at Red Rock.  I can assure you that you are just spinning your wheels.  What seems reasonable to you and me is not what the current climbing community wants.  Like everything in life, climbing is just a reflection of society at large, in search of the perfect world.  Take your shoes off at airports whilst  taxpayers fund a huge new bureaucracy in TSA.  Flying has never been more miserable and less efficient. 

Taxpayers funding self inflicted rescues that diverts from folks who really do need help.  No rapping.  No leaving your cams behind if needed.  Just catch a ride. Why not I guess.  I make sure to live in a place that does not do this.  One of my citified neighbors called wildlife control to remove a mother cougar and her two cubs from denning between our properties.  They asked him if he had been injured by the lions.  He said no.  They said, well if they attack you, give us a call.  For once, logic ruled.  I fucking loved it. That is a reflection of where I live.  Native lands run by native folks who care more about their environment then the entitled class's needs.

I use to argue for construction permit caps in Vegas.  Where is all the water going to come from I would ask.  Local residents real estate values would only rise to their benefit if you capped permits I would espouse.  Blank stares was the main response.   I have never lived in a big city, nor would ever.  No skin off my back.  Live and let live.  Will be an interesting next few years.  Keep spending 10s of millions saving folks cams and ropes

Good take Dow.

I think we should stop rescuing people completely.  

Make Rockclimbing deadly serious again