Patagonia Free Wall kit

Patagonia officially launched their Free Wall Kit earlier this week; the individual pieces have been available for a minute, but the whole marketing push behind the kit concept has gone live. It's a slick and well-put together visual and written presentation. See it HERE.

There's been some discussion of the Free Wall Pack that came up as a sidebar conversation over in one of the G7 debacle threads, but I want to open up a discussion on the whole shebang.

I went to my local Patagonia store yesterday and was able to handle all the pieces, and for as enthusiastic as I was about the concept, I ended up underwhelmed.

The pants: I actually own the pants already. They're mostly great. The pocket size and placements are perfect, the fabric is burly, they move and breathe well and are super comfy. That said, the waistband design and fiddly little buckle is dumb. As a person with the equipment to pee standing up, the gymnastics I have to go thru to reach that dumb little buckle in order to pull down the front of the pants is irritating. I know people with different body parts than me have to manage these logistics all the time, so this complaint probably falls hollow on at least haf the population. But these pants could be a 10/10 for me if they just had a tried and true button and zipper.

The fleece thing: I practically live in multiple generations of R1 pullover hoodies. It's an all-time favorite piece for me. I tried the new R1 Ultralight on at the shop and found the fit to be really weird. It's too baggy in the shoulders and in the hood. 2 chest pockets is overkill IMO, and my biggest gripe is that the center zipper goes down to slightly below my sternum, while the prior generations of the R1 go down to my belly button; I love that for both the massive venting it provides, and for the fact that I can remove the piece by lowering it off my shoulders while keeping it on at the waist under my harness [I retract this part. I revisited the shop and was incorrect—it is as long or nearly as long as the zipper on the standard R1. I think the low-ish position of the chest pockets played tricks on my eyes]. I asked dude at the shop if the standard R1 Pullover Hoody is being discontinued and he told me it is not. I hope he's correct, but I may have to snap up one or two while they're on sale, just in case.

The Houdini things: There is now an anorak version of the standard full-zip Houdini jacket, meant to be pulled on in case of inclement weather while on route. I've forever had a regular houdini, and it's a great incredibly lightweight and stowable piece. The hood does not fit over a helmet, but that's never bothered me. The main benefit of this new anorak version, as far as I can tell, is that it's got a helmet compatible hood, which somehow warrants an $80 upcharge over the regular Houdini. Price griping aside, the fit is awful on me. So baggy in the shoulders (for freedom of movement they say), and the hood is clownishly large. I wasn't wearing a helmet of course, but it seriously felt like I was surrounding my head with a garbage bag. Also, re: baggy shoulders for freedom of movement—ain't no way I'm climbing in a Houdini. If it starts spitting rain while on route, I'm throwing it on at the belay while we wait it out, or wearing it on the descent if we're bailing. Climbing in it? I can't stand a sweatbox. No thank you. There is also a "Houdini Rock" pant, but I didn't bother trying it on.

The puffy: They call this piece the Durable Down Parka. I've got mostly high praise for this piece actually, and could potentially see myself picking it up in an end of seasaon sale. I wish Patagonia published their fill weights; it seems comparable to me to the FitzRoy jacket, which I have and like, and which they call a belay jacket, though why on earth it doesn't have a 2 way zipper is beyond me. Anyway, this piece seems very warm without going full polar, so the right weight for belaying on rock down into the 30s or whatever. It's a hip length piece with good coverage, has a two-way zipper and a snap to close the bottom under your belay/rap device, a really lovely lining material, and two big stretchy drop-in pockets for keeping your shoes warm. All big positives so far. But, the hood is huge, and unlike the Houdini, has no adjustability whatsoever. I confess to not always wearing a helmet, despite knowing that I should. If I'm belaying on a well trafficked route where rockfall doesn't feel like a major concern, and it's real cold, I'm probably going to wear a warm hat instead of a helmet. Even so, the hood felt so big that I'm not convinced it would move with my head even with a helmet on. I really can't see that hood being functional for me and that's a hugely important feature. My FitzRoy hood fits over my helmet, and has adjutability so I can cinch it down if I'm helmetless. Why omit that here? 

The pack: This hit stores last month, so I'd already seen this. It's meant to function as a tag bag on route. With that in mind, there are no external pockets, the fabric is burly, and the buckles are cleverly shielded to prevent snagging and abrasion. There are no load lifter straps, but plenty of well designed packs carry well without them—I did not try it on with weight in it. The haul straps are a surprisingly thin webbing, so I wonder about their durability if being yanked on and abraded against slabs and roofs. More than anything, I question its size. It's a 44 liter pack. That's crag bag size, and even though that's not its intent, I bet a lot of buyers will never leave the ground with this thing. In that context, only having top acceess, no external pockets, and no side straps for securing a coiled rope make for a not very compelling option for those users. Okay, so take it at face value and forget about its suitability as a crag pack; 44 liters just seems huge to me for tagging in-a-day objectives. A decent 22 liter thing works great as a tag bag for walk off shoes, water and snacks, a couple of Houdinis, some aggressive shoes for crux pitches. I'll concede that at a certain temperature range, you may need more room to fit more and warmer layers. 

I have a ton of Patagonia in my closet across multiple sports, and am generally a big fan. I really liked the concepts they were going for here, but the execution has left me cold. Maybe the pieces are brilliant if you have super yoked shoulders, a big noggin, and do big IAD objectives in 30 degree weather. Companies like Patagonia get criticized when their stuff doesn't meet the needs of the 5% doing the hardest stuff, AND when it's too niche for the real world use of 95% of the customer base. 

I'll be curious to see other opinions trickle in. 

Narrator: the "free" wall kit was not, in fact, free.

I think the idea with the pack is that they don’t expect people to cram it full of 44 liters of stuff, but to bring the usual amount of stuff, and the stiff walls and wide shape will make it way easier to rummage around in it and quickly get what you want while it’s hanging at the anchor. Hence all the marketing language about an “oversized interior,” and if you look at the pictures of it in use, it’s not at all full.

I have the Houdini pants, the free wall pants, and the UL R1.  I think all three pieces are really great kit.  The Houdini pants have a spiral zipper that lets you pull them on over your approach shoes, and zip down when its cold.  When zipped open they help venting.  

The Free Wall pants are burly, also vent well, and have drawcords at the hem to close them off.  I agree the buckle is annoying.  Jury is out if they will be too warm late Spring.

The UL R1 is the best pullover R1 I have owned, and I have owned 4 going back to 1999 when first released.  The hood is deeper than I like, but it is more windproof, more abrasion proof, and feels amazing.  I agree that 2 pockets are too much, and it doesn't have thumb loops. The face fabric does allow pretty easy layering and it is more stretchy than the old R1, so the sleeves are tighter but still stretch to pull up over the elbows. EDIT: I measured the UL R1 against my current R1 pullover.  The zipper is the identical depth, the sleeves are 1" longer and the hem is 2.5" longer than the R1 Pullover.

OP, I think you are jumping to conclusions.  You should have spent some time using the gear before you went off Poo pooing it.  I think Patagonia spent a lot of time and effort working out these pieces and I believe they hit the mark. EDIT: My one complaint is the limited colorways.

I’ve also been dismayed by most of Patagonia’s fit and sizing protocols of late. I have been a faithful user of their products for 30+ years. I have spoken several times to their customer service reps and they confirmed that many users are raising the same concerns as myself. The CS reps suggested to continue to provide feedback and encourage others to do the same. The rep told me that the non-tech fit and sizing options are an attempt to make the apparel more appealing to a wide range of users even if the products are less technical for hard use customers. So it goes…

For reference, I’m a lean guy with a normal climber/athlete physique, and now I’m swimming in size xs ski touring pants, and when the jackets fit my shoulders there is a ton of excess material around the waist. 

You lost me at wearing a Houdini in the rain. I mostly wear it as an outer layer in windy conditions, they wet through in about 5 minutes in any serious precipitation 

I agree with you Daniel in general, but I find all of these pieces to fit really well.  I upsized the Houdini Pants to large.  I think the UL R1 is a slimmer fit than my R1 pullover.

I recently bought a bunch of their Nano Air gear(UL Pullover, NA Vest, and NA pants), and promptly returned it when I felt like I was sweating in the car on the drive to the crag with the temps in the 40's.  All of that was super baggy, and non stretchy, and incredibly unbreathable.  I think it would be perfect yoga mom ( or dad) clothes though, really nice and soft and volumous.  I can't believe they recommend it for climbing!

Kevin Strickerwrote:

I agree with you Daniel in general, but I find all of these pieces to fit really well.  I upsized the Houdini Pants to large.  I think the UL R1 is a slimmer fit than my R1 pullover.

I recently bought a bunch of their Nano Air gear, and promptly returned it when I felt like I was sweating in the car on the drive to the crag with the temps in the 40's.  All of that was super baggy, and non stretchy, and incredibly unbreathable.  I think it would be perfect yoga mom ( or dad) clothes though, really nice and soft and volumous.  I can't believe they recommend it for climbing!

That’s good beta on the new stuff, the zipper on my holey old houdini blew out yesterday so I’ll be looking for a replacement. Fortunately, I have a great mountain shop nearby so I can check out the fit. 

I don’t like how Patagonia has been making their jackets tighter across the abdominal area over the years. 

Kevin Strickerwrote:

OP, I think you are jumping to conclusions.  You should have spent some time using the gear before you went off Poo pooing it.  I think Patagonia spent a lot of time and effort working out these pieces and I believe they hit the mark. EDIT: My one complaint is the limited colorways.

Perhaps, but then again, there’s a reason I put this in the gear discussion forum rather than the gear review forum. One place I could for sure be jumping to conclusions is in my assumptions around helmets and hood sizes—I did not have a helmet on when I tried these items on. Other things I’ve said about the fit being off for my body—I mean, I’m just not going to drop the money in order to form in-the-field opinions when the fit is so off for me.

Anyway, no argument here—this is why I opened the thread, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. 

Slim Pickenswrote:

Perhaps, but then again, there’s a reason I put this in the gear discussion forum rather than the gear review forum. One place I could for sure be jumping to conclusions is in my assumptions around helmets and hood sizes—I did not have a helmet on when I tried these items on. Other things I’ve said about the fit being off for my body—I mean, I’m just not going to drop the money in order to form in-the-field opinions when the fit is so off for me.

Anyway, no argument here—this is why I opened the thread, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. 

It's all good, I agree with not buying pieces that don't fit, I think I am fortunate to have larger sholders, so these slim garments work better for me.  I can't wear Patagonia R1 jackets because the XL I need for the arms is huge at my abdomen.  

I get frustrated with how their puffy jackets are all over the place size wise.  I bought a XL DAS Light and I looked like a stay puffed marshmellow, where the Micropuff in XL fits perfect. 

Daniel Patrick Smithwrote:

I don’t like how Patagonia has been making their jackets tighter across the abdominal area over the years. 

I thought it was all the beer I've been drinking 

Kevin Strickerwrote:

I get frustrated with how their puffy jackets are all over the place size wise.  I bought a XL DAS Light and I looked like a stay puffed marshmellow, where the Micropuff in XL fits perfect. 

This is sorta a feature and not a bug.  If every piece of clothing they made fit the exact same way there would be a large portion of the population that would never buy their stuff.  There are an infinite amount of body shapes and sizes out there and the variation and fit over seasons and models helps a lot of people out.  Being 5'3, 125lbs and a dude has never made fitting clothes easy.  When a product comes a long that does fit I definitely buy multiples.

@Slim Pickens, houdini pants are actually a super sweet piece for multi pitch climbing or more appropriately multi pitch belaying. 

Boy, I read this wrong. I thought patagonia giving a way a wall kit.

I just got the R1 ultralight hoody and the free wall pants. 6ft 165lb 32 waist. 

I'm personally a big fan of the R1 ultralight. It feels like a broken in R1 hoody and the material is a nice feel that seems to stand up against abrasion. Not to say that the current R1 iteration isn't a burly as well. I still have a 2018 version and it has only developed small holes around from getting caught on bushes and trees. Got the holes fixed by worn wear cause getting a broken in R1 is hard. The back peeling is a tiny issue but overall I see this R1 ultralight version being just as a capable and being less of an issue hopefully cause of this different material and single piece cut.The cut is slightly different than an R1 with the arms and chest feeling bigger and more free than the slim fit advertises but not a relaxed fit. The length of the main jacket is shorter than I thought but climbing with it I see how having it not so long as it doesn't get caught in your harness and such as a benefit vs my old R1s. I'm also a big fan of the double chest pockets cause sometimes having a place other than in your leg pockets which generally has only been one side leg pocket but now it's 2 on the free wall pants means more area to carry things that doesn't swing or interfere with my harness. 

The free wall pants I need to climb more in to get a better idea. But initial impression is that the material is a nice thickness that doesn't feel like I'll overheat or get cold quickly in. The pants do feel baggier than I realized and the tiny cinch cord without a loop to keep the extra material out of the way other than shoving it back in the waist is annoying but hopefully on a long day out I won't need to fiddle with this very much.

The houdini pants are an interesting piece though and curious to hear other folks thoughts on this as more people get to test them out. 

Took a look through the catalog and I've decided all the patagonia athletes should be required to wear entirely orange outfits from now on.

I was ready to pull the trigger on several items when I heard about the features. The color options shut that down. After being in a bad accident, I've realized that the color of my clothing can play a big part in the total safety picture. My partners and potential rescuers need to be able to see me. The color options for the Free Wall kit that is available for sale is the polar opposite of what's shown in the marketing materials. It's basically camouflage (and also ugly but that's less important.) 

NateCwrote:

I was ready to pull the trigger on several items when I heard about the features. The color options shut that down. After being in a bad accident, I've realized that the color of my clothing can play a big part in the total safety picture. My partners and potential rescuers need to be able to see me. The color options for the Free Wall kit that is available for sale is the polar opposite of what's shown in the marketing materials. It's basically camouflage (and also ugly but that's less important.) 

There is a lot of dark green and gray/blue, but also every single item is available in bright orange. The pants also come in a light blue/ teal shade. 

Slim Pickenswrote:

There is a lot of dark green and gray/blue, but also every single item is available in bright orange. The pants also come in a light blue/ teal shade. 

The Houdini pants and jacket had only been offered in dark green and gray blue online until I checked this morning. It appears you are correct and that may change my decision. Thanks! 

Seeing the pieces and features in this “kit” reminded me of this long article by Colin Haley from a few years ago. Definitely seems like some echoes (zippers on Houdini cuffs, double chest pockets on fleece), and timeline is probably right for how long it takes ideas to work their way to production.

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/sports/climbing/colin-haleys-clothing-system-for-alpine-climbing-in-the-chalten-massif/story-95145.html 

Also some funny remarks in there about fit. 

James -wrote:

Seeing the pieces and features in this “kit” reminded me of this long article by Colin Haley from a few years ago. Definitely seems like some echoes (zippers on Houdini cuffs, double chest pockets on fleece), and timeline is probably right for how long it takes ideas to work their way to production.

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/sports/climbing/colin-haleys-clothing-system-for-alpine-climbing-in-the-chalten-massif/story-95145.html 

Also some funny remarks in there about fit. 

It's cool to see product testing that impacts design.  Here is another article from Colin regarding Patagonia layering that is more specific to rock climbing.