X4’s versus ultra light master cams

I have a double rack of C4’s from .4-3, one .3 and a 4. I want to build out the small end of my rack to get an equal to a .3 and some smaller ones. I considered a black and blue totem but I don’t know if I’m willing to spend the money yet. Does anyone have opinions of x4s versus mastercams? I’ve not seen much about x4s but I see people using them

I have a few of both, I don't think there is much difference, X4's are pretty heavy though. 

ULMCs are affordable, bomber, and are backed by Metolius' resling and refresh service, which is fantastic. 

Camdon Kaywrote:

ULMCs are affordable, bomber, and are backed by Metolius' resling and refresh service, which is fantastic. 

What’s this service, I’m not sure I’m familiar. Biggest reason I’d want the x4s is because they continue the color scheme of the rest of my cams

Caleb Hilswrote:

What’s this service, I’m not sure I’m familiar. Biggest reason I’d want the x4s is because they continue the color scheme of the rest of my cams

For $7, they will resling, lube, balance, and clean your cam. They run them through a ball bearing polisher, and they come back looking like new!

I have BD, WC, Metolius, and Totems on my rack. I don't have trouble with color coding, personally, but you can always put the corresponding BD colored racking carabiner on your Metolius cams (e.g. a gray carabiner on your yellow Metolius)

Love my small UL mastercams and use them all the time, but only for free climbing as I don't do any aid.  Other cams that are more flexible and have a thumb loop are generally more popular for aid climbing, so X4s might be better if you're looking for that.

The color coding issue is not something to worry about.  If you're just doing 0.3 and below, blue metolius is basically the same as 0.3 size (ever so slightly smaller than a 0.3 X4 or Z4) and the smaller purple and silver cams are 0.2 and 0.1 BD equivalents.

Bryan Kwrote:

Love my small UL mastercams and use them all the time, but only for free climbing as I don't do any aid.  Other cams that are more flexible and have a thumb loop are generally more popular for aid climbing, so X4s might be better if you're looking for that.

The color coding issue is not something to worry about.  If you're just doing 0.3 and below, blue metolius is basically the same as 0.3 size (ever so slightly smaller than a 0.3 X4 or Z4) and the smaller purple and silver cams are 0.2 and 0.1 BD equivalents.

Much appreciated! 

We must assume that if you’re buying new cams you’re referring to new generation Z4 and not the older generation X4.

The trigger wires on the Z4 are significantly less durable than the older X4. I have heavily used X4’s on my rack that are 10+ years old in better condition than Z4’s that are just a few months old.

I’ve broken several Z4 trigger wires.

The Master Cams have similar durability to the X4.

I suggest mixing brands for maximizing placement options rather than choosing a single brand for every cam. Alternate brands fill gaps between sizes. 

Alex Fletcherwrote:

We must assume that if you’re buying new cams you’re referring to new generation Z4 and not the older generation X4.

The trigger wires on the Z4 are significantly less durable than the older X4. I have heavily used X4’s on my rack that are 10+ years old in better condition than Z4’s that are just a few months old.

I’ve broken several Z4 trigger wires.

The Master Cams have similar durability to the X4.

I suggest mixing brands for maximizing placement options rather than choosing a single brand for every cam. Alternate brands fill gaps between sizes. 

FYI I repair Z4 triggers for $9. PM me if you're interested.

The ULMCs are just so much cheaper that it wasn't even a contest for me.

Alex Fletcherwrote:

We must assume that if you’re buying new cams you’re referring to new generation Z4 and not the older generation X4.

The trigger wires on the Z4 are significantly less durable than the older X4. I have heavily used X4’s on my rack that are 10+ years old in better condition than Z4’s that are just a few months old.

I’ve broken several Z4 trigger wires.

The Master Cams have similar durability to the X4.

I suggest mixing brands for maximizing placement options rather than choosing a single brand for every cam. Alternate brands fill gaps between sizes. 

I admire you detective skills but I am purchasing used which is the precise reason I’m sitting on a double rack of C4’s, I’d prefer a rack of bd and a rack wc, and then mixed in the small stuff. If anyone is looking for a flat trade of C4’s for friends let me know!

Additionally, I am talking about the old x4s, I’ve heard the not great things about the durability of the z4s, but was wondering about the old x4s. I’d potentially buy new on the met cams, but I’d really love some thumb loop ones if I could get my hands on them.

Honestly, I don't think the thumb loops matter all that much. I'll parrot everyone else saying the ULMC are bomber and a great value; I think they stack up against any small cam especially when you consider the 2-1 price advantage and amazing repair service.

M Awrote:

Honestly, I don't think the thumb loops matter all that much. I'll parrot everyone else saying the ULMC are bomber and a great value; I think they stack up against any small cam especially when you consider the 2-1 price advantage and amazing repair service.

Much appreciated, perhaps I’ll forgo to thumb loops and look at getting the new ones. It seems like everyone loves the mastercams, and doesn’t have a whole ton to say about the X4s 

Below .3, no brand is king.  I prefer the X4 to the Z4, but I have both.  Metolius is just as good unless aiding.  The newer stuff from WC and DMM are also fine.  If aiding, totems and aliens are better.  C3’s are also extremely helpful in tiny cracks.  And I use the smallest three offsets as much as the normal X4s.  

I mostly run standard .1 and .2 BD but the black totem, the black and the green alien, purple and green c3, and .1/.2 X4 offset pretty much live on my rack.

Just start collecting.  You’ll end up with quite a few tiny pieces over time.

Edit:  In the tiny sizes, you don’t really want the BD color scheme.  Each cam is a little different so you want to be able to identify all of them individually.  The weird metolius colors are actually helpful.

I have owned and climbed over Z4, X4, C3, Alien, DMM and regular+offset ULMC.

In the 0.1 and 0.2 -equivalent sizes (Met grey and purple), I find Metolius to be the most confidence-inspiring. Slam a baby purple into good stone and it's trucker.

 I also appreciate their commitment to U.S. manufacturing and their topnotch customer service. 

Blue, yellow, and orange ULMC are probably my favorite and most-placed cams I own, and are easily the best value. I find they complement my similar sized BD cams well.

Metolius is just a dope company making very high quality gear in the USA with competitive pricing. BD is the Walmart of the outdoor world making gear in china and focusing on maximizing profits above all else.

Also WRT the thumb loops: They updated the design of the aluminum stud to cradle your thumb much more. The only arguement for a thumb loop is it gives you an extra inch or so of height when you're aiding. Whatevs...

Jack Mullenwrote:

Metolius is just a dope company making very high quality gear in the USA with competitive pricing. BD is the Walmart of the outdoor world making gear in china and focusing on maximizing profits above all else.

Also WRT the thumb loops: They updated the design of the aluminum stud to cradle your thumb much more. The only arguement for a thumb loop is it gives you an extra inch or so of height when you're aiding. Whatevs...

Solid agree. Metolius: of the climber, by the climber, for the climber. 

I have never once fumbled a placement and thought "Man, I would've gotten that if the piece had a thumb loop." 

I have a weird fetish for micro cams, but have always felt a little confused by Metolius' different cam lineups. I also feel like I've absorbed somewhere along the line that they use a less than ideal camming angle, so I've stayed away. I'm appreciating hearing the enthusiasm and the specific beta on models and sizes here. Perhaps I'll dabble...

Echoing the thumb loop thing—useful for eking out every last bit of upward progress when aiding, but for free climbing just not necessary.

When aiding, the thumb loop isn’t just a height thing.  It’s easier to grab and clip because it doesn’t close down as far when weighted.  If you’re standing on an aider that’s clipped into the sling, it can be pretty tough to get a fifi in there, or french the piece when it’s mashed to the wall by your weight.  Not a critical feature but thumb loops can really save time, energy and knuckles.

Slim Pickenswrote:

I also feel like I've absorbed somewhere along the line that they use a less than ideal camming angle, so I've stayed away. I'm appreciating hearing the enthusiasm and the specific beta on models and sizes here. Perhaps I'll dabble...

There’s not a a universally ideal angle. metolius use a slightly lower constant camming angle compared to the other brands which means higher outward force on the rock (greater holding power if other variables were constant) at the cost of reduced range. Lobe and rock friction also affect a cams holding power tho.  If you search around, other threads go into more detail