Duality of Man 5.15d

Frank Steinwrote:

I believe that Ondra gave it a good go and confirmed the grade. 

Yeah, that's not how it works...

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

That's not how it works...

Well, since nobody has repeated a 9c, none of them are confirmed?

Frank Steinwrote:

Well, since nobody has repeated a 9c, none of them are confirmed?

That is how it works, yeah…

For comparison, Ondra describes Silence as a 20-meter 5.13b 5.13d followed by a V15, V13, and V10. Duality is described as a 20-meter burly (and confirmed) 5.14c, followed by a V11/12 and V15. Of course, the quality of rests between each of these sections is a big factor in the overall grade. But 15d seems plausible

Julian Rwrote:

For comparison, Ondra describes Silence as a 20-meter 5.13b followed by a V15, V13, and V10. Duality is described as a 20-meter burly (and confirmed) 5.14c, followed by a V11/12 and V15. Of course, the quality of rests between each of these sections is a big factor in the overall grade. But 15d seems plausible

20 meter 13d is how Silence is described, to be a stickler. 

We should all send every 9c and figure out how hard they are! (I've already decided Silence is the only real 9c though)

Cedric Salvadorwrote:

We should all send every 9c and figure out how hard they are! (I've already decided Silence is the only real 9c though)

I just sent 9cans of beer and I can take you all on who's first?!

ginger wrote:

Did anyone see the film this last week in CO? Worth say a 2hr drive to see it?

The interview with Bailey is heavily edited (to the point that it’s confusing if you don’t know his history) and the footage doesn’t give a particularly clear impression of the route’s challenges.  If you had it at home and could do replays and freeze frames that would help a lot.  Going to see it in a theatre was a bit frustrating.  

Others may chime in here, but I found the mellow film tour far too similar to Reel Rock.  3 of the 4 videos were celebrities beating themselves up on a project and then sending.  I love climbing videos, so I’ll take what is offered, but the production left a lot to be desired.  The “crusher struggles to overcome themselves on hard project and then sends” story line is WAY overbaked.

Not to diminish Bailey’s accomplishment.  He put in the work for an insanely hard route.  Probably the hardest in the US even if it’s not 15D.  

All four vids were totally elite achievements.  But that discussion should probably have it’s own thread.

The “crusher struggles to overcome themselves on hard project and then sends” story line is WAY overbaked.

Yeah, but that's cutting-edge climbing, right? If you start getting too creative with climbing films, they stop being climbing films and start being human interest pieces or something, with some climbing thrown in. That's not to say that those films can't be really entertaining, and when I see them at, say, the Banff film tour, I often love them. But when I go to a climbing-specific film tour, like Reel Rock or Mellow, I want to see CLIMBING. (Note: I haven't seen the Mellow films yet -- I'm going in a month or so. I'm just basing my comment here on this one general comment you made.)

Seth Cohenwrote: Calebwrote:

The “crusher struggles to overcome themselves on hard project and then sends” story line is WAY overbaked.

Yeah, but that's cutting-edge climbing, right? If you start getting too creative with climbing films, they stop being climbing films and start being human interest pieces or something, with some climbing thrown in. That's not to say that those films can't be really entertaining, and when I see them at, say, the Banff film tour, I often love them. But when I go to a climbing-specific film tour, like Reel Rock or Mellow, I want to see CLIMBING. (Note: I haven't seen the Mellow films yet -- I'm going in a month or so. I'm just basing my comment here on this one general comment you made.)

I hear that.  I would like to see more technical deep dive mixed with cultural vignettes.  I want the step by step beta, the close-ups on grip position and the changes in strategy. I don’t mind acknowledging the frustration of many-try projects, but I feel like it puts too much on the send when overdone.  It just feels like a made-for-TV triumph.  The climb is the coolest part.  Falling is a known part of that and doesn’t need to be out in front.  Falling doesn’t need to be failing.

I also enjoy videos with multiple climbs and climbers.  Fun scenes of climbing life and other random events fill out the feel.  I don’t need the chronological layout of falls in every video.  To Bailey’s credit, the emphasis on number of tries and reasons for struggle is partially to justify the grade.  Which will certainly be a point of controversy.

ginger wrote:

Did anyone see the film this last week in CO? Worth say a 2hr drive to see it?

I liked the film but idk if a would drive 2hr one way to see it. Maybe 1hr one way if I knew I wasn't going to be able to see it any other way. 

I think the film has some beautiful shots of the cave and climb. And I really liked Sean's commentary on his process and more generally about trying hard sport climbs. Gave me something to think about in relation to my own climbing. Not groundbreaking but good if you are interested in cutting edge climbing.

It sounds like Mellow is offering people to host their showings even if they aren't on the pre-listed tour, similar to how reel rock does it. I reached out to my local gym in hopes that they'd host one and they're working with Mellow to make it happen. Might be worth it to try the same!

The story of a strong climber overcoming their previous expectations is nothing new, but neither is the discussion around it. I like watching cutting edge climbing and find it to be quite inspiring, not revelatory or ground breaking. I also like the interesting stories, like Bisharat's Palestine Reel Rock, but find that our effort to make every story into more than what it actually is, can be worse than just making a simple and maybe even overbaked story. I'd rather see an honest film about something simple than a dishonest film about something trying to be complicated.

Cedric Salvadorwrote:

 I'd rather see an honest film about something simple than a dishonest film about something trying to be complicated.

10000%

Cedric Salvadorwrote:

I'd rather see an honest film about something simple than a dishonest film about something trying to be complicated.

I also agree with this but there’s something about making the send into the ultimate achievement that irritates me.  The process of redpointing is bigger than just one good burn.  I see the send as an important point of completion, but a lot of these videos make it look like such an unpleasant process to get there.  It’s all about the frustration and fear of failure.   All the emphasis on personal struggle and self doubt feels exactly like the “trying to be complicated”.  Just show the climbing.  More stoke, sick sequences and crazy grips please.

I'm confused, do you expect a film about a 3 season long project with dozens of attempts each season to not include some frustration or fear of failure/self doubt? The mental struggle is a very real part of climbing and doubly so on a long term limit project.

I get it if you want to watch something like rampage but I don't think a film about a singular climb is ever going to be that for you.

Israel Rwrote:

I'm confused, do you expect a film about a 3 season long project with dozens of attempts each season to not include some frustration or fear of failure/self doubt? The mental struggle is a very real part of climbing and doubly so on a long term limit project.

I get it if you want to watch something like rampage but I don't think a film about a singular climb is ever going to be that for you.

Contrast the Connor Herson video to the Sean Bailey or Brooke Rabatou vids.  All of them send super crazy hard projects.  But the feel is different.  I don’t think that the mental parts of a limit repoint should be edited out, or that the pressures of celebrity climbing shouldn’t be represented.  In fact, I wanted more of the Bailey interview.  It felt pretty censored.  But the final video is a lot more entertaining when it feels fun and exciting.  And all three vids back to back was a lot of falling and being upset.

I wasn’t expecting Rampage, but it could have been more Mellow.

Final caveat, then I’ll leave it alone:  I saw it once in a theater.  The video may feel different with more views.

I just hate that they charge like $80 for a hoody. A well filmed climbing film is a well filmed climbing film. If it has too much of a plot then it's not a climbing film anymore to me. Its a documentary. Some of y'all youngins too young to remember the glory days of climbing films like The Dosages, Progression, The Players, or climbingnarc

I thought the films were quite good and well worth going to showing. Tickets were $25 and it was almost a 3 hour event with like 2 hours of film to watch. Plus the athletes (minus Brooke) were in attendance and signed posters plus did a short appearance on stage after each film. It would have been cool to have a Q and A with each athlete but understand time wise that may not have possible.

It’s wild to see that grade finally land in the States. Sean has been on a different level lately and the footage of those moves looks insane. Hopefully, it holds up to repeats and doesn't get downgraded immediately.

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

climbing films like The Dosages, Progression, The Players, or climbingnarc

Omg I miss climbingnarc so much! Peak climbing content absorption.