Duality of Man 5.15d

https://gripped.com/news/sean-bailey-proposes-5-15d-for-his-new-duality-of-man-in-the-u-s-a/

Kinda a big deal.  First of the grade outside Europe.  Sean Bailey making America proud. 

I'm interested to see the Mellow film tour and hoping it can better explain exactly what the route is. From my understanding there was a project, 6 million dollar man (extension of Lee Majors), which Nathaniel Coleman had been trying, but that this is different than 6 million dollar man. Is 6 million dollar man still something people want to do now that there's Duality of Man? I believe it was estimated to be around 9b+... 

Also, when is someone going to repeat 9c? There seems to be a wide enough grouping of styles for it to happen.

Cedric Salvadorwrote:

I'm interested to see the Mellow film tour and hoping it can better explain exactly what the route is. From my understanding there was a project, 6 million dollar man (extension of Lee Majors), which Nathaniel Coleman had been trying, but that this is different than 6 million dollar man. Is 6 million dollar man still something people want to do now that there's Duality of Man? I believe it was estimated to be around 9b+... 

Also, when is someone going to repeat 9c? There seems to be a wide enough grouping of styles for it to happen.

This route (Duality of Man) is the same thing as the Six Million Dollar Man project. It was just given a different name when sent. 

More history info here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DUD0DmEkdWi/comments/

For some reason I read that caption as there being the 6 million dollar man project AND a 6.1 project. Kind of a bummer that there isn't a 9b+ next to a 9c haha.

Here’s a cool video of Nathaniel Coleman finishing up Lee Majors and climbing a bit on the extension. I thought it was cool to see him trying the moves and get a little teaser of the climbing in the upcoming mellow film.  

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lrNDkF-fRTw

It'll settle in at 5.15c once the euros get on it. Can't have the USA competing with the hardest routes in the world.

Considering the difference in climbing resumes between Sean Bailey and the other three climbers that have climbed 5.15d, this would be a massive jump for him.

Just quickly compiled this off Wikipedia, so who knows, but it's probably a good generalization of their resumes...

Adam Ondra (5.15d Silence)   15d x 1  ...  15c x 4 ... 15b x 26 (wtf!?!) ...  15a x 47 (wft, again !?!)

Seb Bouin (5.15d DNA)   15d x 1  ...  15c x 3  ...  15b x 8  ...  15a x 8

Jacob Schubert (5.15d B.I.G.)   15d x 1  ...  15c x 1  ...  15b x 8  ...  15a x 8

Sean Bailey (5.15d Duality of Man)   15d x 1  ...  15c x 1  ...  15b x 0  ...  15a x 3

Not saying it's not truly 5.15d.  Sean Bailey is a crusher, who goes pretty under the radar for guys at that level, and he's got crazy bouldering and comp resumes.  Just pointing out that, if this grade holds, it catapults him into some pretty elite company.

Kevin, Duality is a bit more bouldering-based than some of the others, composing of a 5.14cish into a good rest into a V10 into a good rest into a V15 (Nathaniel originally called it V13 in the video above but some holds broke bumping the grade up a bit - source: folks who have been on the climb and were there the day of the send - I'm sure the new Mellow film will mention it as well). Looking at Sean's bouldering background is a bit more apt, where he's probably climbed more hard boulders than the other folks on the list combined.

Tal Mwrote:

Kevin, Duality is a bit more bouldering-based than some of the others, composing of a 5.14cish into a good rest into a V10 into a good rest into a V15 (Nathaniel originally called it V13 in the video above but some holds broke bumping the grade up a bit - source: folks who have been on the climb and were there the day of the send - I'm sure the new Mellow film will mention it as well). Looking at Sean's bouldering background is a bit more apt, where he's probably climbed more hard boulders than the other folks on the list combined.

Sounds to me Will Bosi's climbing resume is a good match.

amariuswrote:

Sounds to me Will Bosi's climbing resume is a good match.

For sure - in general was mostly stating Sean definitely isn't out of the conversation of proposing 5.15d. I heard a rumor Jakob was heading that way to try it - I know he's on a trip to Vegas (or was when I last checked a few days ago). Would be really keen to see him on it.

J W wrote:

Not taking anything away from Sean Bailey, who is an undeniably incredible climber, but I don’t believe the numbers support this claim.

Taking Ondra as the only reference point and looking at 8C boulders or harder, Sean’s done more 9A, but Ondra’s done more overall.

If we take everyone on the list, it’s not close at all.

It would be interesting what people would say if Ondra called his latest boulder 9A+. Even with the world’s most impressive résumé  (by a staggering margin), I suspect people would suggest he’s not qualified to propose 9A+.

If there’s a takeaway, it’s that people can be forgiven for being taken aback at least momentarily by the proposal of 15d in Arizona.

While the numbers play out differently than you’re suggesting, I agree with your point—Sean Bailey knows what the hardest moves feel like.

I don’t see a legitimate reason to doubt him here.

Having never been on the climb, never touched the holds, and never climbed anything in the same universe of difficulty, I’d hate to make my ignorance so manifestly evident by suggesting I know better than he does.

J W you’re showing your age a bit - this new generation doesn’t even count V15 as a “hard boulder”  

While I agree with you in spirit - with how mythological Silence and Terranova are, and continue to be, still going without a repeat, and his recent Soudaon Seul send - I don’t think anyone would question an Ondra V18. Especially now that someone else has proposed one in Exodia

FWIW, 5.14+ to good rest to V10 to good rest to V15 pops out soft 5.15d on Darth-grader - which is where I imagine this would lie on the spectrum. I’d be shocked if Seb doesn’t come send it to give it the beloved slash grade (are there any existing 5.15c/d?)

Kevin Rwrote:

Considering the difference in climbing resumes between Sean Bailey and the other three climbers that have climbed 5.15d, this would be a massive jump for him.

Sean Bailey (5.15d Duality of Man)   15d x 1  ...  15c x 1  ...  15b x 0  ...  15a x 3

Not saying it's not truly 5.15d.  Sean Bailey is a crusher, who goes pretty under the radar for guys at that level, and he's got crazy bouldering and comp resumes.  Just pointing out that, if this grade holds, it catapults him into some pretty elite company.

I'm always skeptical when someone FA's their newest hardest grade. Not too mention when they skip a grade, and have extremely limited experience on the previous one. My guess is that Biblio is confirmed and Duality gets downgraded by the euros

Tal Mwrote:

Kevin, Duality is a bit more bouldering-based than some of the others, composing of a 5.14cish into a good rest into a V10 into a good rest into a V15 (Nathaniel originally called it V13 in the video above but some holds broke bumping the grade up a bit - source: folks who have been on the climb and were there the day of the send - I'm sure the new Mellow film will mention it as well). Looking at Sean's bouldering background is a bit more apt, where he's probably climbed more hard boulders than the other folks on the list combined.

A.) V15 is still considered a "hard boulder", albeit it's entry level "hard" nowadays, but still hard. 

B.) Whether or not Duality is "bouldering-based" or not is irrelevant. It's well agreed as a sport climb. We need to compare routes to routes and boulders to boulders, if we are comparing in good faith. Who's to say Seb or Schubert's bouldering resume wouldn't also contain many V15 and higher boulders if they devoted time to them, for example. I trust Seb's judgment on sport routes more than Sean and I trust Sean's judgement on boulders more than Seb's. I think some skepticism here is warranted, even from the peanut gallery on the couch. 

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

I'm always skeptical when someone FA's their newest hardest grade. Not too mention when they skip a grade, and have extremely limited experience on the previous one. My guess is that Biblio is confirmed and Duality gets downgraded by the euros

Bibliographie was first climbed by Alex Megos, and downgraded by Stefano to 9b+. So it already has been confirmed a bit, Seb Bouin being another confirmer. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

You're making my point for me.

“My guess is that Biblio is confirmed”. Yeah, already happened was what I was pointing out.

Another thing to mention is how inflated people give boulder sections of routes. Not saying that’s the case here at all, but there is a tendency to do so on a rope as opposed to being on the ground. 

AndySalowrote:

“My guess is that Biblio is confirmed”. Yeah, already happened was what I was pointing out.

Another thing to mention is how inflated people give boulder sections of routes. Not saying that’s the case here at all, but there is a tendency to do so on a rope as opposed to being on the ground. 

Well it's gotta be hard to accurately assign a section of a route a bouldering grade when you rarely boulder...

Another thing that's worth appreciating, is how much needs to come together to get one of these routes done.  It seems like it takes a lot more than just freak strength.  

Each of these routes, from my not-so-exhaustive research, seems to present challenges above and beyond just being hard.  Silence has it's funky-ass, upside down crack beta.  DNA, apparently, has a pretty height dependent iron cross type move.  B.I.G. has a problem with moisture and conditions, that Ondra said contributed to it being 15d instead of 15c.  Duality of Man also has tough conditions, apparently, only getting shade for one hour per day.  

It'll certainly be cool to see some of the World's best try Duality of Man, and to see which of these routes sees a repeat first.

Kevin Rwrote:

Another thing that's worth appreciating, is how much needs to come together to get one of these routes done.  It seems like it takes a lot more than just freak strength.  

Each of these routes, from my not-so-exhaustive research, seems to present challenges above and beyond just being hard.  Silence has it's funky-ass, upside down crack beta.  DNA, apparently, has a pretty height dependent iron cross type move.  B.I.G. has a problem with moisture and conditions, that Ondra said contributed to it being 15d instead of 15c.  Duality of Man also has tough conditions, apparently, only getting shade for one hour per day.  

It'll certainly be cool to see some of the World's best try Duality of Man, and to see which of these routes sees a repeat first.

I could be wrong....but it seems like it should go without saying that the hardest routes in the world (that only a handful of humans have climbed) need many things to come together...

Worth noting Seb had not done a confirmed 15c before proposing 15d (he had done a few “b/cs”). I think it’s entirely possible that Sean, with his sport climbing background and now in peak bouldering shape and free from competitions, could climb something harder than Bibliography which is pretty well established at the grade.

Also apparently Jakob tried it for a day or two in between working Shaolin, so it will be interesting to hear his initial thoughts. 

Evan Atwaterwrote:

Worth noting Seb had not done a confirmed 15c before proposing 15d (he had done a few “b/cs”). I think it’s entirely possible that Sean, with his sport climbing background and now in peak bouldering shape and free from competitions, could climb something harder than Bibliography which is pretty well established at the grade.

Also apparently Jakob tried it for a day or two in between working Shaolin, so it will be interesting to hear his initial thoughts. 

Worth noting that DNA is not confirmed either....

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

Worth noting that DNA is not confirmed either....

I believe that Ondra gave it a good go and confirmed the grade.