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Ethics of naming a legacy crag.
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Recently discovered a legacy crag in the Santa Cruz region that hasnt seen foot traffic in ages. No chalk, no graffiti, just patinaed bolts on what should be a highball boulder spot. What are the ethics of posting this spot on MP? I dont want to take credit for discovering the crag, and i damn well dont want to invite people to trash the area and graffiti. Should i just keep it as a hidden area for me and my group? Its a beautiful little area, and I am torn between sharing it and not. Or should I share it? I FAed a few climbs on an adjacent boulder that I discovered, cleaned, and maintained, but if I posted this other one, then the legacy area would be exposed as well. Tips? |
Tim Duongwrote: If the location would be prone to trashing and graffiti, I would keep it secret. Not all climbing needs served on a platter. You found it and had fun, keep the possibility for exploration alive. |
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I’m curious why you think that posting information about a crag would automatically lead to trash and graffiti? People publish areas every single day and I think that the vast majority of them stay graffiti and trash free. I know not everybody will agree with me but I do think climbers do a generally good job of taking care of climbing areas. Is there something unique about this area that would make it more prone to vandalism? I would probably share the area since it sounds like it would be a net positive for the climbing community. |
Tim Duongwrote: If it truly hasn't seen traffic in ages, I'd guess all bets are off but I'd make a full hearted effort to connect with the local community & see if anyone knows anything about the history of the area. Gatekeepers exist. Nothing we can do about it. That being said, no one "owns" the rock, the route, etc... and I agree, most climbers that I know are pretty good about leaving a place better than they found it. It's the general public that usually need to be educated about LNT |
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Once I found some bolts, posted about them, and got scolded and asked to take it down. I did. You can do that if you don't mind the chance of scolding. It's hard to tell whether it's someone's secret spot or abandoned |
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When I “discovered” (heavy on the quotes) the booka boulders, i was told by some locals under no circumstances should I add them to MP as they would get very crowded. My buddy later added them to MP and I don’t think much changed (they didn’t get crowded). But then they got added to Kaya (by an FA guy) and they got wild crowded but folks added a bunch of new problems. Idk what the moral of the story is here. |
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If you want to ensure that you are the last person to feel that sense of discovery…
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Hangdog Hankwrote: It is often taken for granted that more climbers = more bad behavior. Here's an interesting (to me) anecdote that presents an inversion of that rule: Just the other day I was reading on a prolific route developer's MP profile and learned they had uploaded pics (but not locations/route postings) of a private crag. They have done quite a bit of work on it, installing some features (mostly benches) and gluing a rock to a tree stump for fun. Someone stole the rock, they wrote under the photo. Imagine that! A private crag, presumably only shared with just a small network of people, and someone stole something stupid for no reason! Gatekeep or don't gatekeep, there is no avoiding the suck. |
Hangdog Hankwrote: I get why you think that, but this area is in the proximity of a college, and despite the climbers being really respectful, our other climbing spots have seen graffiti and trash. |
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I personally would like to know about this bouldering spot. Especially if it has some decent easy stuff. Castle Rock is 45-50 minutes away. Although this interest is purely for selfish reasons, it's also possible I could help with your decision. Feel free to DM. I reread your above post. Yeah, if near UCSC the trashing fear is justified, but also probably would have already happened. If near Cabrillo, probably not much risk. You got me thinking about where this might be! |
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Here's the thing - someone was there before you. So if you can't find any info about it, call it what you want but I'd suggest a name reflective of its lost/found nature, a way of tipping the hat to those who came before you. As to publishing it, why? I don't understand the why? Absent additional info I'd say- no, do not publish. Keep the circle small. Only tell those who are willing to go with you and will not themselves publish. Keep it tight, keep it safe. You can publish 20 years from now, if you change your mind. You can't unpublish. |
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Is the fear that you share the location on MP, and then a bunch of climbers show up with spray paint cans, or is it that the local graffiti artists are combing the MP forums for virgin spots to tag? Both seem pretty unlikely. I'd say, if the boulders are on public land, go ahead and share. Especially if you could use some help brushing, cleaning, and establishing (re-establishing) the area. If it's public land, you didn't stumble upon someone's "private stash", they have no ownership or right to it. If they are on private land, or have other access issues (like the approach is through private land), keep it buttoned up. |
Tim Duongwrote: After speaking with the climbing club as well as a professor who has climbed the area, they advised that it would be better to post than to not. Its proximity to the police station means that chances of graffiti are slim but not zero. Also met some mountain bikers that were developing some dirt pump tracks near the spot, so if anything the area is starting to gain friction. Ive already done most of the heavy lifting, clearing the brush, the rock, cleaning up trash. Its up to the climbing community to set good climbs now i guess. Thanks for the input everyone. Cheers. -Tim |
Tim Duongwrote: Also forgot to mention. There is a tree net being made in the vicinity of the boulders. And a dirt track is being formed for mountain bikers. So this area does see foot traffic, just not by climbers and mostly local kids. |
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Why publish any climbing area? Climbing existed well before the internet. If worthy, someone will write a guide. If not, then it can, and should, stay word-of-mouth. |
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I would guess that the folks with rattle cans and the trash dumpers are more likely to be led to this spot by following a trail than by reading a climbing website. Dunno if that helps. |
Rob Dillonwrote: Trash and graffiti patterns in the greater Santa Cruz area are kind of interesting. Most graffiti I believe to be gang related, and almost always found on a variety of easily accessed concrete structures. Trash is mostly either homeless people related or trash dumped off of "rural" roads. There is a concrete structure at the county road here were I live that gets tagged from time to time. The stretch of road 1-2 miles farther out from us gets trash dumped regularly. And I see the same events happening in similar places. But outside of a few specific places, the local trails don't seem to get much of this type of attention. I don't mean to get anyone's ire up, but the majority of trail area damage comes from mountain bikers. Probably horse back riders are a distant second, but unlike mountain bikers, equestrians virtually never leave the trails, and rarely use trails they aren't supposed to. I have spent a lot of time on most all the trails in Santa Cruz county. |
Frank Steinwrote: Yeah, the World's changing. We have this thing called the "Internets" now. It's crazy. You can share information with other people from around the world without waiting for someone to rearrange the moveable type on their printing press. |
Kevin Rwrote: True, but why change for the sake of change? Why do climbing areas have to be available at the tap of a finger tip? What is the benefit and for whom? |
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To the OP, I grew up and started climbing in the Santa Cruz Mountains area. There are many places in the area that are not in current guidebooks or other publications for various reasons. Some of them were originally published but are on private property. Some are on public land but climbing is illegal on the particular formation despite the climbing gear still being present. There are also some that just are not a good situation for climbing for various reasons such as poor climb, poison oak, proximity to private property. If the location is on public land, you should research whether climbing is actually allowed in the particular area by the land manager. I suggest you ask long term guidebook authors of the SF Bay Area about the location. Jim Thornburg would be a good person to ask. |
Mark Fletcherwrote: Thanks for the reply. For more context I currently live in SC and attend school at UC Santa Cruz. The area has no poison oak thanks to me, is on public land, and is pretty secluded so ive never had any issues climbing or making a ruckus during my cleaning sessions. I went ahead and DMed Jim on instagram and have yet to get a reply. Ive also found a lead on a possible FA, but contact with him will be difficult. I put in a good amount of work redeveloping this crag and my hopes is to meet whoever is the FA. |
