South Platte Fixed Anchor Ignorant Question

Have climbed Wunsch's Dihedral a couple of times and each time I've been up there I've wondered why at the top of P1 (before the P2 handcrack) there is a low one bolt anchor with a fixed nut and a bunch of tat vs why not have a higher, more convenient/comfortable two bolt anchor? Then again up at the top of P2 in the alcove, there's all that old fixed gear/tat? I think I even noticed a hacked up old gym rope among the old tat. Again, why not just put in a bolt anchor here in a convenient spot so teams can just quickly assemble and move on? These days seems like all the trade routes in Yosemite and Squamish tend to have bolted anchors - it's just convenient to keep things moving whereas the monstrosity that is the P2 belay just detracts from the overall experience (although I would say I do laugh every time I'm hanging there at the sheer absurdity of it all). IMHO. Again, totally ignorant of SP ethics on this, just looking to get educated on why it makes sense to even have a bolt at the top of P1 with the fixed nut vs why don't teams just lug up the cams to make a gear anchor out of the crack. Like just seems internally inconsistent. 

I was up there this week and thinking those were likely there for rapping / bailing? The gear at the first anchor is really good. I just threw in a single cam and equalized to the bolt / nut. I didn't even fully look at the gear options for the weird rope anchor at top of p2 and agreed some bolts there would be nice...but also somewhat out of character for the rest of the Platte. Noticed some nice bolted stations on Center Route and didn't remember those from a few years back so it's not like it would be desecrating the Pinnacle. I backed that one up with a .3 and .4 and felt good.

On another note, what a route! That has got to be in my top 3 for Colorado. Right up there with The Naked Edge, Kingfisher, Pervertical Sanctuary, and Scenic Cruise. It was baking pretty good this past Saturday and nicer to climb it the back half of the day where it got a bit of shade.

Doctor Chosswrote:

I was up there this week and thinking those were likely there for rapping / bailing? 

That's right, fixed gear or tat at belay stations in the S. Platte typically exist for bailing.

 Noticed some nice bolted stations on Center Route and didn't remember those from a few years back ...

I presume you mean the bolted rap stations to the right of Center Route? Additional rap stations (to be used for both Center Route, Wunsch's, etc.) have been added since I first climbed Center Route 10+ years ago, but not belay stations. I'm sure the rap stations were added due to the popularity of these climbs. 

Jonathan Swrote:

That's right, fixed gear or tat at belay stations in the S. Platte typically exist for bailing.

I presume you mean the bolted rap stations to the right of Center Route? Additional rap stations (to be used for both Center Route, Wunsch's, etc.) have been added since I first climbed Center Route 10+ years ago, but not belay stations. I'm sure the rap stations were added due to the popularity of these climbs. 

I think those stations exist for The Green Project (I may have this name right). It was an difficult slab project on that face.

If the fixed gear should not be for actual belay anchors but more for bailing then why is there a bolted anchor below the p4 5.12b slab pitch? If we shouldn't have bolted anchors then stands to reason you would just pick a nice uncomfortable belay station in the crack below somewhere on p3 and set up shop there. Seems like that belay anchor may have been set up for convenience??

Generally makes sense that the tat is for bailing, but then someone added a bolt as part of that "bail anchor" atop p1? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Next time I'm up there I'll take care of all the old fixed gear and tat and if someone needs to bail next time they can leave a bunch of expensive cams! All that garbage up there is way more of an eyesore! 

Hey Datus,

  I appreciate you taking an interest in maintaining the fixed hardware on the Cyn Pin.  I replaced most of the old bolts back in the early 2000's, but some anchors were not updated if the bolts seemed adequate.  Yes, convenience bolts have been added, and removed, at the Cyn Pin.  If you are interested in upgrading anchors please just make sure you do it sustainably.  If you add bolts, they most likely will be removed, if you remove bolts make sure you do a good job patching.  The bail anchors on Wunsch's should probably stay, because otherwise new anchors will likely spring up to replace them.

Given that it sounds like you have only been up there a couple times, I would only ask to make sure you know what the Fck you are doing before you start messing with history.  No one is going to complain if you remove a bunch of tat and replace with chain or new webbing, but just realize there are LOTS of variations to most of the routes at the Cyn Pin and hardly any are in a guidebook.  Don't chop an anchor that gets used.

I haven't been climbing in the Spires much in the last decade,  but I have hundreds of days climbing there over the last 30 years.  It's a funky area.  There are not a lot of people who spend the time doing work there. Thank you for taking an interest in keeping the place looking good.  Reach out with questions, Cheers.

Kevin Strickerwrote:

Hey Datus,

  I appreciate you taking an interest in maintaining the fixed hardware on the Cyn Pin.  I replaced most of the old bolts back in the early 2000's, but some anchors were not updated if the bolts seemed adequate.  Yes, convenience bolts have been added, and removed, at the Cyn Pin.  If you are interested in upgrading anchors please just make sure you do it sustainably.  If you add bolts, they most likely will be removed, if you remove bolts make sure you do a good job patching.  The bail anchors on Wunsch's should probably stay, because otherwise new anchors will likely spring up to replace them.

Given that it sounds like you have only been up there a couple times, I would only ask to make sure you know what the Fck you are doing before you start messing with history.  No one is going to complain if you remove a bunch of tat and replace with chain or new webbing, but just realize there are LOTS of variations to most of the routes at the Cyn Pin and hardly any are in a guidebook.  Don't chop an anchor that gets used.

I haven't been climbing in the Spires much in the last decade,  but I have hundreds of days climbing there over the last 30 years.  It's a funky area.  There are not a lot of people who spend the time doing work there. Thank you for taking an interest in keeping the place looking good.  Reach out with questions, Cheers.

More of the type of response I was hoping for! I have no desire to remove bolts added by someone else (e.g., the bolt atop p1 or the bolted belay anchor atop p3) - for simply out of respect for the rock. I also have no desire or need to add bolts (I can make perfectly capable gear anchors anywhere on that route). I was more or less trying to understand the thought process behind why things are the way they are up there on that particular route, learn more about the history (hence my ignorant questions), and engage with you all. Seems like at some point someone thought it was a good idea to add the bolted anchor atop p3 for convenience, which now "gets used" and thus shouldn't "get chopped". I just wonder why something like that is amenable but a bolted anchor elsewhere is not. Again, I don't really care, just trying to understand more of the unwritten rules that appear internally inconsistent on different pitches of the same route. Thank you for engaging in this! 

The bolted anchor on top of P3 is relatively new (within last 10 years) and an improvement IMO. Before there were two bolts there I saw parties belay from a single bolt on the bolt ladder because they had placed all their 3s/4s and had no other options. It’s worth noting that this anchor is one of the original bolt ladder bolts and an additional anchor bolt. Before the second bolt was added you needed to save a #4 to properly back up the single bolt if I remember correctly.

Edit to add: I totally understand your confusion. Like Kevin said, the Spires are a funky place. Regardless, placing new bolts or removing existing fixed hardware requires approval from the Jefferson County Open Space Fixed Hardware Review Committee, so things are more or less locked in place for now.

On the center-route belays and at the top of the hand crack on Wunsch’s, there’s always a massive rat’s nest of tat, even though there are already bolted belays on both routes. The precedent is clearly that these are fixed anchors. Instead of leaving more trash on the wall, why not replace the tat with two camouflaged bolts?

I’m way too lazy to go up there and do anything myself but someone else absolutely should!!!

Mark Westfallwrote:

On the center-route belays and at the top of the hand crack on Wunsch’s, there’s always a massive rat’s nest of tat, even though there are already bolted belays on both routes. The precedent is clearly that these are fixed anchors. Instead of leaving more trash on the wall, why not replace the tat with two camouflaged bolts?

I’m way too lazy to go up there and do anything myself but someone else absolutely should!!!

Yeah the three times I've been up there I've seen people use the fixed anchors atop P1 and P2. Hopefully they are backing up the tat/gear atop P2. Just seems silly to have all that there vs a couple of bolts so parties can get out of the hanging belay sooner than later. 

Dátus Tomasovichwrote:

Yeah the three times I've been up there I've seen people use the fixed anchors atop P1 and P2. Hopefully they are backing up the tat/gear atop P2. Just seems silly to have all that there vs a couple of bolts so parties can get out of the hanging belay sooner than later. 

I’ll be out first week of January for new years week, I’ll help you clean up some old tat for a belay on Breashears! Hope you’re doing well Dátus!

Is this the one you’re talking about? 

Jeremy Baumanwrote:

Is this the one you’re talking about? 

Yeah that's the one above P1. Purple tat looks new since I was there last!

Dátus Tomasovichwrote:

Yeah that's the one above P1. Purple tat looks new since I was there last!

Haha, try much older, that photo was from 2019

Jeremy Baumanwrote:

Haha, try much older, that photo was from 2019

The cord looks similar to what I saw a few weeks back tho! Sketchy!