Joshua Tree: stolen gear

Hey everyone, we’re looking for some help.

"both of our anchors were gone"

Between the night of Monday Nov 24th and Tuesday Nov 25th, we left a rope and two climbing anchors (each with 3 cams) at the top of the routes “Clean and Jerk” and “Leave It to Beaver.”

This morning, the rope was neatly packed at the base of the route, but both anchors were gone. With 6 cam, slings, binners 

If anyone saw something, picked them up for "safekeeping", or has any information, please let us know.

We’d really appreciate the help.

Thanks so much!

Ps: please don't teache me about TR "rules". Nothing justifies to be a robber.

Bonjour, I cannot offer any help but why was gear left at the crag? When I lived in France I cannot remember leaving such gear being a common occurrence. It is something not done in the US. Draws yes, a fixed rope rarely, but not what is being described. Unfortunately, it becomes a crime of opportunity. There are no rules about that except don't create the opportunity. Bon chance.

What's the differents between let your draws on the wall and let your cam at the top ? 

Even draws left behind is a contentious issue in the US, and the more common etiquette is to not leave anything behind overnight or even set up while you're not actively using it. It is seen as inconsiderate and entitled by most people here. This is especially so in a high trafficked area like Hidden Valley, and national parks in general. I do hope you get your gear back though.

Brandon Rwrote:

Even draws left behind is a contentious issue in the US, and the more common etiquette is to not leave anything behind overnight or even set up while you're not actively using it. It is seen as inconsiderate and entitled by most people here. This is especially so in a high trafficked area like Hidden Valley, and national parks in general. I do hope you get your gear back though.

We were in Smith before. Draws hung, nobody cry.

Yann Gudefinwrote:

We were in Smith before. Draws hung, nobody cry.

I hope you get your cams back!

Joshua Tree (and California trad locations generally) is pretty old school, despite the popularity and easy access. Fixed gear and bolts are contentious and frowned upon, whether or not it makes sense. 

Also, there are a large amount of tourists and dirt bags (cheapskates), leaving gear out is not a good idea or you might risk overly enthusiastic booty-taking.

Consider posting a message at the campsite bulletin boards and the gear store in town if you have no luck on mountain project.

It's weird the rope was left neatly at the base. Maybe whoever left the rope was offended, cleaned everything up, and also left the cams but someone else came by and boosted the cams? Hard sayin not knowin. 

Did an injury occur? Otherwise you left your stuff in a national park where “leave no trace “ is supposed to be adhered to. There’s no excuse for that, just like there is no excuse for stealing. 

Hi Yann, I'm so sorry you lost your stuff.  There could be a couple of things going on.

First, you unfortunately did not understand the typical accepted practice in National Parks and Joshua Tree, which is that it is bad form to leave gear on a route, especially a very popular, easily accessible route.  After 24 hours it is considered abandoned and the Park Service can remove it, but even before that other people can often consider it abandoned and will take it.  This left behind gear is not considered stolen.  Sometimes, the gear will be turned into the ranger station, to one of the popular guide services, or will be taken to another safe location while the climber who retrieved it trys to find the owner.  But other times the attitude is that the gear is "booty" and fair game to keep.  Which leads me to my next point.

Joshua Tree is located in the greater LA area, an area of over 20 million people. In general much of greater LA is a fairly high crime area. There are a large number of criminals, drug addicts, and scumbags and sadly, some climbers are also criminals and scumbags. Unless one of my partners is on the ground next to my gear, I never leave anything of value even for a short time at the base of a route.  If you do a multi pitch route, take your essential documents (IDs, credit cards, passport etc) with you on the route in a small sac.  Never leave these things in your car unattended, even to go into a restaurant in town. Do not leave climbing gear in your car overnight if you are staying in a hotel. This holds true for Las Vegas/Red Rock and a number of other southwestern climbing areas.

A recommendation is to change the title of your thread to lost gear, and to specify the size of cams which went missing. There are a lot of climbers in the area who may have old cams of that size who would be willing to donate one or two to you if it is a hardship to you to replace them. If I lived nearby, I would rummage through my gear box and see if I could help you out, but I'm over 2 hours away.

M Awrote:

Joshua Tree (and California trad locations generally) is pretty old school, despite the popularity and easy access. Fixed gear and bolts are contentious and frowned upon, whether or not it makes sense. 

I read “old school” in this context to mean that back in the day the local climbers were a**holes and they are still a**holes today. 

Landyn Daviswrote:

I read “old school” in this context to mean that back in the day the local climbers were a**holes and they are still a**holes today. 

Where in the States would you leave trad gear on popular, easily accessible routes with the expectation it would remain?

It’s a tough way for the OP to learn the ethic here, but yelling into the wind won’t change its direction.

From what I’ve gathered from stories from older climbers that used Joshua Tree as their stomping grounds, part of the ethics of Joshua tree is taking cams that are left behind. Many  dirtbag climbers out in Joshua Tree got their first racks by following behind an inexperienced climber and gathering the booty. I know a lot of of my friends that climb with a complete mismatch rack from all the pieces they’ve gotten from people that have overcamed their piece or didn’t want to do the mandatory down climb and left an anchor on the top. Part of the lore of Joshua tree I think, encourages collecting any booty left behind. If any locals or o.g tradsters want to refute that, please do but this is what I’ve noticed and heard from old tales. 

phylp phylpwrote:

 people can often consider it abandoned and will take it.  This left behind gear is not considered stolen.  .

Hello Phylp Phylp,

Thinking that the equipment is abandoned is bad faith. It’s just a way to ease one’s conscience about an immoral act.

I am truly sorry for not understanding and respecting certain unspoken rules. Rules that I may or may not agree with, but that I have no say in anyway — it’s not my place.

Pulling the rope, putting the gear in the rope bag and leaving everything at the base of the route would have been a very clear and sufficient message.

As for the rest, it’s hypocrisy to legitimize theft.

The guy didn’t take the rope but took the cams; he picked what he wanted. He knew very well that we would be there just a few minutes after him

I really appreciate your message, hard for me to accept replace my totem, Light BD and X4 by old cam. And don't want to beg. 

But I really appreciate your idea. 

I just want my property back.

If you forget to close your house, it's not because you find someone in it become his home...

I'm sure the OP and their partners have taken the lesson to heart. Unfortunately, this kind of situation reflects a broader quirk of U.S. climbing culture — some people treat any unattended gear as potential booty. For example, on Cathedral Peak in Tuolumne, a free soloist who picked up a cam on the route (possibly unclipped from the rope by another passing party) was widely praised on MP. And at Five and Dime in Yosemite, climbers returned to the top of the cliff only to find that their anchor materials had disappeared, also apparently taken by a passerby they saw earlier.

At the same time, there are plenty of climbers who don’t subscribe to that mindset. My partner and I genuinely enjoy making an effort to reunite forgotten gear with its owner, even if the success rate isn’t high.

To me, the key distinction is intent. If someone collects gear and clearly sees that the owner is actively looking for it yet chooses not to speak up, that crosses the line from “found gear” into something much closer to theft. There are reasonable alternatives: you can remind the owner not to leave gear unattended, or even ask for fair compensation if retrieving it required effort. But staying silent when you know whose gear it is — that’s not in the spirit of the climbing community.

It can both be true that abandoned gear can't be considered stolen and attempting its return is the decent thing to do. It's also a decent thing to have consideration of other's experience and not leave shit in our natural spaces and on popular routes. I'd hope these to be universal truths across all borders.

Colonel Mustardwrote:

Where in the States would you leave trad gear on popular, easily accessible routes with the expectation it would remain?

It’s a tough way for the OP to learn the ethic here, but yelling into the wind won’t change its direction.

You never know where the wind carries the sound of your voice.

Some people feel invested with a divine mission to enforce ethics, yet I notice they seem more interested in gear theft than in cleaning chalk marks off the holds, picking up trash at the foot of the cliff... And I prefer not talking about some questionable bolt.

In fact i can absolutly understand the rule. Don't tell me it's a fare game 

I remember my first trip to Chamonix. My partner at the time was fairly new to big alpine routes and we weren't moving particularly fast, nor particularly slow. We're on some big rock multipitch near the Dru and here come these Frenchmen hot on our heels. My partner is following and the French leader just climbs right over him. Doesn't ask to pass. Doesn't say a word. He gets up to my ledge and clips into half my gear anchor, again no asking involved. Brings up his partner, and just leads right over me, even though I'd already started up. 

I was not happy. The dudes didn't care a lick whether they used our gear, or whether we were okay with them passing. But I held my tongue. I'd heard stories about this before, and it didn't seem right to make a stink of it. Local ethics are local ethics; don't respect them at your peril.

Sorry someone swiped your gear, but leaving ropes hanging on trade routes overnight is not how we do things in SoCal, and especially Joshua Tree. 

Yann Gudefinwrote:

You never know where the wind carries the sound of your voice.

Some people feel invested with a divine mission to enforce ethics, yet I notice they seem more interested in gear theft than in cleaning chalk marks off the holds, picking up trash at the foot of the cliff... And I prefer not talking about some questionable bolt.

In fact i can absolutly understand the rule. Don't tell me it's a fare game 

I did not say it’s a fair game, it’s the reality of the situation. I’m not going to argue with your pain at losing property, I hope you get it back. I’ve been there in life, it sucks.

You might follow Phylp Phylp’s suggestion to sing more sweetly into the breeze. Yes, you are right that this is beyond what would normally be considered “booty”, but completely trashing the ethic (no matter its inconsistencies) is probably not going to help you.

Yann Gudefinwrote:

Hey everyone, we’re looking for some help.

"both of our anchors were gone"

Between the night of Monday Nov 24th and Tuesday Nov 25th, we left a rope and two climbing anchors (each with 3 cams) at the top of the routes “Clean and Jerk” and “Leave It to Beaver.”

This morning, the rope was neatly packed at the base of the route, but both anchors were gone. With 6 cam, slings, binners 

If anyone saw something, picked them up for "safekeeping", or has any information, please let us know.

We’d really appreciate the help.

Thanks so much!

Ps: please don't teache me about TR "rules". Nothing justifies to be a robber.

My only comment consists of a simple question. Why did you leave your anchors and ropes fixed on these two popular climbs? I think that your answer will influence how this situation is perceived. 

Yann Gudefinwrote:

The guy didn’t take the rope but took the cams; he picked what he wanted. He knew very well that we would be there just a few minutes after him

A few minutes? You left it up all night. He had plenty of time. What if someone got to the wall before you? Do they have to wait for you? Or clean your stuff? 

If you forget to close your house, it's not because you find someone in it become his home...

You sound pretty entitled to act like Josh is your house and you can just leave your stuff anywhere. It's unfortunate you lost a lot of gear but this was stupid on your part 

I’m all for trying to return lost / left / bailed-on gear if not too much overhead for the looter … I mean finder.  ;)

That said, reading this thread, I have a new appreciation for how clean popular routes have tended to be, especially in national parks.  So that is a more positive side of this “ethic” that bit you, Yann.

You’re not the first or the last. I’ve cleaned a five piece anchor at JTree only to later learn that someone had left it so their spouse could come back and see it. I’ve also accidentally left - and so lost a brand new rope used on one climb at JTree. Called the rangers - not to report a “theft” - just to see if it had been turned in. I don’t mean for that to sound like I was cool with it. But the feelings faded over the next days and left me only determined to be more careful.