New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

apogeewrote:

100% on the car tech rant. I bought a newer Outback several years ago (my third such model over 35 years), and have been irritated by the 'technology' in it. Too many 'nanny car' features (as I call them), including braking when you speed up to pass a car. And the electronic tailgate is just plain dumb- it only opens electronically...there is no mechanical operation option, and it is slow, and has weird behaviors where it stops working altogether.

Good to know, I have a 2021 Crosstrek with a manual rear hatch - and most all of the safety things like autobraking and lane control can be disabled with the touch of a button. I made sure of that before I bought the car  but there are many tech things I love about it. the side mirrors flashing when someone is in my blindspot  that is essential to me because I have such limited mobility in my midback and neck.  I love love love the eyesight adaptive cruise control. It’s fantastic for any highway driving esp around LA. And I love that somehow all the engine and tire stuff is monitored remotely and tells me every month that everything is OK.

But I’ve been thinking recently about selling my van and if I do that I was planning to go back to the Outback Wilderness. I can sleep in the back of that.  That would be my 4th Outback.

White’s yesterday from A-Hills.
edited to say I also love the little lines on the video screen that tell you where you are when you back up, or parallel park! Great invention. 

Lori Milaswrote:

First of all, for no reason that I could tell, the damn car starts dinging the second I turned it on. Why? Backing out of the driveway is a technological feat. There is no “rearview mirror“ in these modern cars, it’s now a “rear view camera”.  It literally looks like a video game running the whole time and very disorienting.

Saw this the other day and got a chuckle....

I drive an older vehicle without all the gadgets.  When I rent a car that have lane control, assisted cruise control stuff, back up camera, blind spot warnings, etc...I'll have to admit I like it.  I think it will allow older folks to keep their driver's licenses a lot longer...

Although I still managed to back my rental car into a post in a parking garage last year in Europe...ugh...  The scratches were pretty deep in the finish so I took it to a repair shop for a quick quote.  Guy was hilarious and we chatted about his trip to Vegas.  He said repair would be around 1400 swiss franc.  I went to the store and bought a sharpie and colored the scratches in.  Rental car company "found" another scratch on the car in a different location  ("Damage(s) Door, front (Car body) Driver side scratch < 5 cm (down to primer)"...and I was happy to pay 145CHF.  Funny.

Lori Milaswrote:

The route my friend was working on is called darkness at noon at Smith. He’s been back a number of times to try again.  Meanwhile, he’s back here in Josh this weekend, picking off the hardest routes he can find.,,ones that I never even heard of. 

But your question got me wondering about 5.13 climbs here in Josh. Aside from two or three famous routes I’m not sure what all there is so it might be a fun project to go look at them all.  

——

I’m looking forward towards some 12s I did in my youth, but they’re really hard!

5.11 cracks are more realistic, and I’m just getting on the 11a cracks in Joshua Tree. Finally feeling good about my placements. Pretty much all cams, totems…Maybe that’s as far as I go?

My partner wants to push me up some ice. Just got the gear. My Nomic broke during training. Looking to the Grivel North.

No matter what the outcome, it’s the journey that makes it all worthwhile.

I had to take my 2016 Lexus to the dealership on Friday and they sent me home with a brand new Lexus GX as a loaner. I was so angry and frustrated when I returned that car and I thought about the qualities that make Climbers a little different.  First of all, for no reason that I could tell, the damn car starts dinging the second I turned it on. Why? Backing out of the driveway is a technological feat. There is no “rearview mirror“ in these modern cars, it’s now a “rear view camera”.  It literally looks like a video game running the whole time and very disorienting.

The car does not trust the driver to stop itself so as I would approach a red light, or another car, or a curve in the road, it starts applying the brakes way ahead of time. I thought I was having engine failure.

If you put your drink down in a holder in the center console, when you pick your drink up again, the door closes automatically behind you. Try to put your drink back down, good luck finding that holder.

And yet, with all the high-tech innovation, they cannot figure out how to build a seat where you cannot drop your cell phone (or loose change or taco) between the seat and console. Because there is no place to put a cell phone of modern size you lay it somewhere and the first time you take a sharp turn the cell phone slides off and down into that chasm. How hard would that be to fix?  Millions of dollars in R&D and yet they can’t find a better place for a cell phone.

So I dropped the loaner off yesterday and when the service guy said, how did you like it I said I HATED IT.
can we clip some wires or disable all this techie stuff? Nope… It’s all integrated into the car and you’re stuck with it. So I asked him what he had that similar to an old Jeep – – and where I won’t be so embarrassed that it’s a complete wreck on the inside from all the dirt and gravel and climbing stuff. I’d be happy with a stick shift. 

When my car starts dinging because I have not fastened my seatbelt, it brings out the rage in me and I will drive without the seatbelt and listen to dinging until it finally stops-THEN I will fasten the seatbelt.  (Tony says the new cars never stop.) . That’s where I was going with this – – I think there is some rebellion in Climbers and this is proof.

Hahaha, same thing happened to me! I thought I hit something. Now I back up extremely slowly.

All the new electronics seems to help on long drives. I autopilot most long tedious drives up and down the 5 fwy to Bay Area…

Li Huwrote:

That group was engaged in sex with 12 and 13 year old girls. 

I missed it.
Do you have a link?

Add me to the auto 'bells and whistles' haters. When I purchase cars, as infrequently as possible, I always ask to only be shown the most basic vehicles available. Though, even with the used cars I am looking at, most (all?) now have increasing amounts of 'tech' ---groan. For example, I'm perfectly happy to have manual windows, but they now seem to be virtually extinct. I admit that certain features are helpful ( back up cameras, for instance, but always supplemented by mirrors). While my car doesn't have them, 'blind spot warnings' are definitely beneficial. But much beyond that---no thanks.

Yurywrote:

I missed it.
Do you have a link?

We’ve been asked not to discuss it this topic, and it’s easy to find.

A nice 30 mile round trip ride to the big city for a cinnamon roll. Temps are back to high 50’s and we will be rock climbing Tuesday. 

We both share in the frustration with the level of tech installed in newer cars. We plan to drive our 2015 Tacoma TRD Offroad 6 spd MT  and 2014 Civic until the wheels wear off. 

*official truck of the Eastern Sierra

Daniel Joderwrote:

Loved the custom car story! Love all the anecdotes… especially the 19th century accomplishments.

As to Jim Holloway, I have some memories that I’m not sure are all mine or have been influenced by seeing old photos. Anyway… it was a rainy May(?) of 1977 in Camp 4 and on a dry day I happened across a small bouldering group that included a rail thin and very tall Jim H (didn’t know who he was until later) dressed in white painter paints with a white painter’s cap perched backwards on his head.

Now here is what I remember seeing that maybe John or others might confirm about Holloway’s strength and flexibility… they were working this very short (one move?) mantel problem. Jim walks up to the sloping mantel, places his hands palm down on the granite with his fingers pointed in toward his body and his elbows out in front almost touching… then he proceeds to simply do a press until he could lock out his arms straight and step up. Don’t you have to be double jointed or something to get your elbows to touch this way??? And then the tricep strength to press up! Or is my memory clouded by the years?

That same month we were sitting at a picnic table in Camp 4 when this short, sort of nondescript, older (in my eyes!) dude walks by. My buddy says, “Hey, that’s Yvon Chouinard.” I had no idea. He just looked like some lost tourist to me.

Another thing I had no clue about… I think it was that previous winter that the pot plane crashed in the lake and Valley climbers were inexplicably getting rich all of a sudden. I had no idea about this either until years after.

I wish I had known then what I know now about climbing history and about how fleeting life is… I would have liked to have paid more attention to what was going on and to have engaged those earlier pioneers in conversation—much like Lori has been able to connect with past and current climbing pioneers… but I was just a clueless kid then.

Oh… that same spring I caught the ride from Boulder to the Valley in an old VW bus with a small group of hippy climbers. I think my portion of the gas was like $10 or something. I also think they were high most of the time as we struggled at 20mph up the hills and maxed out at 60 per on the descents… heading west and off to glory! Who were those climbers I now wonder??? Were they climbers I had read about or would read about in the magazines? Or just normies like me? No idea and no clue, being very young and focused pretty much on just myself…

Jim on the juggernaut in S Colorado, ca 1978. I would guess everything you read about Jim is true. He was quite thin, but exceptionally strong. After I was credited with V8 and V9 in 1958-59 (in retrospect), Jim jumped to V11 and V12 in the 1970s. He was probably the most amazing boulderer of the 1970s-1980s. But he left bouldering for bicycle racing of some sort, and never returned to the sport, to the best of my knowledge. 

Yvon as I knew him in the 1950s. He told me what I was doing was called "bouldering", and I assumed the S Ca climbers had coined the word. Forty years later I discovered that the Brits had used the term in the 1880s. The "Bleausards" had been practicing their skills even before, but their title implies a specific locality. 

Daniel, you and I are USAF affiliated, so you can appreciate how I stayed in shape at the airbase back in 1959-62. No climbing walls, of course, but on evening or midnight shift and the officer in residence at base ops, I would put on my shoes and climb around the metal stairwell to the top of the control tower. I also had some tricks I did at the base gymnasium. You had to improvise back then. 

My issue with the new cars is how big the screens are. Its fine for someone  to dive into that touch screen while driving but I get the equivalent of a DWI for touching my phone to refresh the GPS . The few times I have had a rental car I almost crashed trying to figure out the screen. 

Finally got a decent amount of climbing in today after my long drive through the snow.  P1 and the first half of p2 just as dry and picked out as last week. it's been cold but the water is not running... Hangover from the drought. 

This is a lot thinner than it looks.  every placement is bottomed on rock with less than 2 cm of ice. 

the middle section was still super thin with a heady slab to overcome (the spot I bailed last week.  but then the top looked great!

it climbed pretty well to almost the very top and then it went completely to shit just 20ft from the trees.

It was totally doable but not 100% and I had options and that is why I am still alive after 43 years of ice climbing. 

3 raps got me down.. I still bailed but at least I got over 250ft of climbing in. Better to bail 20ft from the top than  120ft from the top like last week. 

Ward. life is better when you are smart. You are smart to rehearse the heck out of those highballs and get them dialed.  you cant send if you are all broken up... 

As a kid, I pretty much climbed everything everywhere. At 8, my family scolded me climbing buildings etc.

Today, we were at the Getty, all that Travertine looked so climbable. Guessing 5.10 to 5.11 ish?

My daughter saw me looking up at the wall and scolded me   

I've been driving manual transmission since I started driving in the mid 1960's.  I dislike automatic transmissions, but it is getting harder and harder to buy a car with manual. My current ride is a 2019 Honda Fit with a six-speed manual transmission--best car I've owned. It a gasoline car, but gets 35 mpg, which is pretty good.  It has a pretty large screen, a backup camera, which I find extremely useful, and a right-side camera.  The right-side camera is so much better than a mirror (which I also have and keep adjusted).  The camera has a much broader field of view with no blind spot, and tells me how many car-lengths back approaching traffic is, and I can check it with a glance without turning my head at all. The Fit accommodates a surprising amount of junk and shoehorns into tight NYC parking spaces that other cars have to pass up.  For such precision parking maneuvers, the backup camera is an invaluable aid. Oh, it also has push-botton ignition, which I could take or leave, but it is convenient to have your keys in your pack and still be able to drive the car.

rgoldwrote:

I've been driving manual transmission since I started driving in the mid 1960's.  I dislike automatic transmissions, but it is getting harder and harder to buy a car with manual. My current ride is a 2019 Honda Fit with a six-speed manual transmission--best car I've owned. It a gasoline car, but gets 35 mpg, which is pretty good.  It has a pretty large screen, a backup camera, which I find extremely useful, and a right-side camera.  The right-side camera is so much better than a mirror (which I also have and keep adjusted).  The camera has a much broader field of view with no blind spot, and tells me how many car-lengths back approaching traffic is, and I can check it with a glance without turning my head at all. The Fit accommodates a surprising amount of junk and shoehorns into tight NYC parking spaces that other cars have to pass up.  For such precision parking maneuvers, the backup camera is an invaluable aid. Oh, it also has push-botton ignition, which I could take or leave, but it is convenient to have your keys in your pack and still be able to drive the car.

When we lived in San Antonio we bought a new Honda Fit in, I think, 2005. Absolutely loved it. Great gas mileage, reliable, and more room than you would think inside. I’m 6’ 2” and had no trouble driving it. At the time I was big into bike racing and I remember sleeping in the back with the rear seats folded down along with my bike and other gear. Lots of options for folding down combinations of seats. It didn’t have much clearance, though, so you had to be careful on rougher dirt roads so maybe not the best option for a climber out west. Our current Fit (called a Honda Jazz over here) is a 2021 hybrid model with very low mileage. Getting 51mpg average and plenty of room to carry stuff to the crag. Great car!

P. S. I have always driven cars and trucks with manual transmission and preferred it. This Honda Jazz is an automatic (our first automatic) and I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised at how much I like it—especially in the stop and go traffic coming back into Barcelona!

back up cameras are great. I just dont like the big TV screen distraction of modern cars. I added a back up camera to the camper and it doubles as the rear view mirror in the back. very usefull. 

I bought a 25 Tacoma in august  and,the fifth toyota truck I have owned since 1978, and like it and most of the really annoying features I am able to turn off. I like the alarm that goes off when you are backing up and something  is behind you that you cant see. The thing I hate is the object is closer than it appears passenger mirror. I go to a glass shop and have a regular mirror put on but on this one bacause it has the blind spot assist I had a small cut out area so that it would not be affected. I also hate the big screen but mine is the smaller screen which is ok. It still has the manual hvac controls instead of the touch screen like my wifes 23 subaru. I still like the headlight dimmer switch on the floor. I dont use cruise control which is good as it takes too many steps to engage it.

"The thing I hate is the object is closer than it appears passenger mirror"

This comment brings to mind one of my all time favorite Gary Larson cartoons:

It shows a terrified driver looking into such a mirror, and completely filling it is a giant, very evil-looking eye !!!

Kevinmurraywrote:

I bought a 25 Tacoma in august  and,the fifth toyota truck I have owned since 1978, and like it and most of the really annoying features I am able to turn off. I like the alarm that goes off when you are backing up and something  is behind you that you cant see. 

Ya got me beat by 6 years but I’m on my 7th truck :)

I went 24 this year on a good deal, the one safety feature I can’t turn off is the auto breaking anti rear end collision feature, it takes time to get used to.  I thought I would be turning the others off but decided to leave them on and get used to it. Decided I like the adaptive cruise control on curvy Idasippi roads.

I had a demo this summer, got pulled over for speeding fiddling with the cruise control, at the end of the conversation the state trooper said “if this was your truck I’d give you a ticket, but I have a new Subaru and can’t figure out half the shit in it…” 

Nice guy 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

back up cameras are great. I just dont like the big TV screen distraction of modern cars. I added a back up camera to the camper and it doubles as the rear view mirror in the back. very usefull. 

Putting so many car functions into the touch screen as opposed to manual controls has got to be one of the greatest human factors design screwups of all time. Subaru did this with heat seaters where in order to adjust the damn thing you had to navigate through 3 screens, taking your eyes off the road the whole time since there is no tactile feedback. There were so many complaints they issued a firmware upgrade to make it easier. Some manufacturers are starting to realize what a mistake this was and are reintroducing manual controls while the EU may start mandating it in order to reduce driver distraction.

Just to pile on to the Toyota bandwagon… we have had four of them, all with stick shift. Awesome and reliable. With one, as part of my job at the time I was able to have it shipped down to Argentina. We did two wonderful camping trips in it—one across to Chile, down to Puerto Natales, then to Puerto Montt in a ferry, then eventually Ushuaia and back to Mendoza on Ruta 40. The next summer we did another Ruta 40 trip on the altiplano up to La Quiaca on the border with Bolivia and back to Mendoza. I think we had two flat tires in all that driving and that was it.
Awesome trucks… 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

A nice 30 mile round trip ride to the big city for a cinnamon roll. Temps are back to high 50’s and we will be rock climbing Tuesday. 

We both share in the frustration with the level of tech installed in newer cars. We plan to drive our 2015 Tacoma TRD Offroad 6 spd MT  and 2014 Civic until the wheels wear off. 

*official truck of the Eastern Sierra

My wheels have almost fallen off: 1989, 330,000 miles, rusting apart, takes a lickin' and just keeps on tickin'. Bought it 20 years ago in Mammoth Lakes CA with 73,000 on it. I LOVE THIS TRUCK! Still my only vehicle... It's retired now: no more snow, no more rugged 4WD, no more living in the back.  Temperate north California  coast. Treated like a baby now.

Ward Smithwrote:

I still look forward to the movie.  I met Verm bouldering in Hueco Tanks in the 90’s, he was quite the character.  I admire him for sticking to his ground up ethics, but getting all broken down is a consequence of so many bad falls.  I guess that I am a “cheater,” but using top rope rehearsal on highballs has allowed me to keep bouldering fairly hard at 65 without (so far) major injury.

Wow. I look away for a minute,,,Anyway, I did see the movie. It was available for streaming on the Banff Mountain Festival site. Unfortunately, I caught it on its last evening of availability. It is a great movie, particularly for this crowd. It won the "Best Climbing Film Award" at Banff. Both this movie and Climber Girl raise very basic questions (for me) about goals, competitiveness, risk etc. As a relative newb (only been at it for 27 years), my own desire to improve and try hard has been moderated by a strong aversion to injury, and an inborn preference for process and flow over results. I'm just not like those of us who'll throw themselves at problems come hell or high water. In any case, it's excellent fodder for conversation over a beer. I hope it shows up on streaming at some point.

I'm very glad I saw it before John gave away THE major plot point