Industry wide color coding for cams?

This so comical to me. There is a huge difference in a gold Dragon and a gold WC cam for example.  That is to celebrated as far as i am concerned. 

With the push to limit the number of cams that BD did with C4 (and the other 2 big players followed) we ended up with cams that dont really overlap. Thankfully the size difference between the brands do fill in the gaps nicely. Of course you have to add #8 Metolius and a old #4 Wild Country to get true full coverage. 

If you are carrying more that one set of a particular brand and not mixing brands, color codes are far from relevant. 

I find that grouping similarly sized devices starting with the smallest in the forward positions and proceeding rearward in an ordered manner generally keeps the gear manage-Able. 

Bb Cc wrote:

My dad is color blind, suspect I am a product of failing to quickly identify the best protection. ;)

Color blindness is an X chromosome linked gene so you wouldn't actually have gotten it from him :)

just use colored biners to color code for size ranges regardless of brand or cam color

Joe Chenwrote:

Color blindness is an X chromosome linked gene so you wouldn't actually have gotten it from him :)

Yes but what about chuffing? Is that sex linked or no-sex linked?

According to Saint AI, color blindness affects one in 12 men and one in 200 women. How can these folks possibly be successful trad climbers if they can’t discern the colors of their cams in the usual way (they see the colors differently, I’ve been told)?

Joe Chenwrote:

Color blindness is an X chromosome linked gene so you wouldn't actually have gotten it from him :)

The "product" he spoke of was not the colorblindness.

Calebwrote:

Stems could also be labeled in brail so you can read them with your tongue.

The BD color scheme kind of won this war.  Combined with WC and DMM, this is the standard and the other cams are outliers.  If you have a full rack of Metolius or Trango, well, you code in Python.  But it’s your rack, pick what works for you.  

Trango recently switched to the BD color scheme.

That's sort of like asking for industry-wide compatible rechargeable batteries for power tools. . .

'just sayin. . .

My eyes still see placements in original friend sizes. For example a #3 camalot is a 3-1/2 friend, or maybe closer to a 3-3/4, which was never made. I think a 3 Metolius is a 1 friend, a n 8 metolius is a 3-1/4 friend.

Same thing with stopper/rock sizes. My eyes see placements in original stopper sizes. Even though I used Rocks for many years, I  never learned the Rock sizes. I just grab the 6-1/2 Rock, which of course there isn't any such thing. I see colors fine, but in terms of racking or taking from the rack to place, I just look at the part that counts. Mixed up colors don't matter to me.

I can still eyeball hex placements too.

timothy fisherwrote:

This so comical to me. There is a huge difference in a gold Dragon and a gold WC cam for example.  That is to celebrated as far as i am concerned. 

With the push to limit the number of cams that BD did with C4 (and the other 2 big players followed) we ended up with cams that dont really overlap. Thankfully the size difference between the brands do fill in the gaps nicely. Of course you have to add #8 Metolius and a old #4 Wild Country to get true full coverage. 

If you are carrying more that one set of a particular brand and not mixing brands, color codes are far from relevant. 

Actually the cam sizes on virtually all of them within a given brand do overlap, by a half size or very close. And when it misses the half size overlap, it usually misses by over lapping more, not less. 

Friends originally were available in sizes 1, 2,and 3. The 4 followed shortly. The overlap in these sizes was very small. Another year or three and they fixed the mistake by adding the half sizes, first 1-1/2 and 2-12. It took about another year for the 3-1/2. This formula worked out, each size overlapping the next by a little over a half size. These rest of the manufacturers as they came on line just followed this established pattern.

Camalots, the first double axle cam, were created to cover a larger range for each cam. They had to do something different to make them desirable. 

Can't speak for Totem, but with Metolius we're incredibly lucky that the 2 most valuable in-between sizes - orange and black - are colors BD doesn't use.

Serge, please enlighten me. The range of a 3 metolius is smaller than and completely covered by a .4 camalot,  and,  the range of a 5 Metolius is smaller than and completely covered by a .75 camalot. What am I missing?

While I wait for tasty slings to hit the market I've just decided to use the BD color scheme on my racking biners regardless of the cam color based on the range of the cam. That should tame my WC/BD/DMM/Totem/Metolius Franken-double-rack for now  

Eric Craigwrote:

The range of a 3 metolius is smaller than and completely covered by a .4 camalot,  and,  the range of a 5 Metolius is smaller than and completely covered by a .75 camalot. What am I missing?

This isn't true. You're probably comparing Metolious' "usable" range to BD's total range.

Their published total ranges:
Grey C4:
15.5mm - 26.7mm
Orange Metolius:
18.5mm - 28.7mm

Green C4
23.9mm - 41.2mm
Black Metolius:
27.9mm - 43.1mm

This is what I used to support my claim about how these sizes of BD and Metolius cams relate to each other. Yeah, it's just "camparator". The size ranges illustrated match the published data I find. The size range data for Metolius cams is sometimes noted as specified as "usable range", for all other cam brands it is unspecified. As far as I can tell.

It is certainly possible that Austin knows stuff I don't. I would guarantee it in fact. 

My question about holes between sizes for a given manufacturer remains. My personal experience doesn't support that, and neither does the published data I have seen. So I wonder why?, and have asked why? It isn't an important matter. It's just mild curiosity. I might even learn something. 

Metolius info: https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/cam-range-guide.html
BD info: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0880/2195/8973/files/M13747_F_Camalot_C4-ULC4_IS-WEB.pdf

Often a placement is larger than what you can fit in the through the lip. This is common on featured rock, but also blown out sandstone cracks.
A slotted 99% cammed cam won't walk or rip if placed at a bad angle.
At 50% cammed there's less margin for lobe/axle deformation before it tips out
At 50% cammed there's less margin to crush the rock before it tips out.

The gaps matter more the smaller the cam. I probably think about in between sizing when placing 90% of microcams, 20% of finger size, and 2% of hand size.

Thanks Austin. I understand most of what you posted, the rest is food for thought. I am not too old to learn. And I learned something. I also didn't know those charts existed,  links to them weren't readily apparent to me. One point I do wonder about is how important the  deformation is at 50%, or say 67%. I suppose the clue to that answer is in the usable vs total range. Lobes that are solid would seem to be less vulnerable to deformation. Yeah lots of things to consider. 

I have never used modern microcams. I typically don't rack below a 3 Metolius,  sometimes rack a 2, never ever have for free climbing below a 1. All in tcu's (wired bliss sizes 1, .75, .5 respectively) and original size friends (size 1). I have never owned or used offset cams. Somehow I managed to get by fine, including on El Cap routes. Easy aid ones. 

My apologies to Timothy Fischer. 

Thanks again Austin. I have wondered, a bit. Now I understand. 

Just in case anyone doubts Austin's numbers, here is an orange Metolius with a (2013) grey Camalot.  (post-Covid Camalot is slightly bigger, but not by enough).

Inward-flaring cracks really expose small differences - you need a smaller size to pass through the opening, a larger size to avoid umbrella'ing inside the crack, so the range of "sizes" that actually fit becomes small.

Out of curiosity, who depends on color coding more - the 5.13 crusher or the 5.8 trad dad weekend warrior? Something in between?