Let's talk about the one of the biggest killers in climbing

Maybe you haven't experienced a welded rope with a knot in it.. 

I use knots in the ends of my ropes selectively. Where I feel it's nessicay absolutely. When I feel that the benefits don't out weight the risks I rely on being absolutely certain of the center of the rope, being certain that I have plenty of extra rope to reach the next anchor, using a third hand that works a little bit too well and being methodical and alert. 

aikibujinwrote:

People use this as an argument for not tying a knot at the end of the rope a lot, which really is a failure in risk management. Risk has two components: a probability of something bad happening, and the consequence (outcome). Putting aside all the different ways to mitigate rappelling in strong wind that's already mentioned in the thread, what's the consequence of your rope getting stuck? Now you're stuck on the wall and need rescuing. Big deal. What's the consequence of rappelling off the end of your rope? YOU DIE. Let's not use rope getting stuck as an argument anymore against something that can potentially save someone's life.

Disagree with this. Very much depends on the circumstances. Getting the rope stuck because of a jammed knot in the mountains in deteriorating conditions, for example, could also have fatal consequences. There really aren't that many truly 'mandatory' rules--other than being careful and thinking things through carefully, so you make informed and rational choices.

aikibujinwrote:

It actually has a third which is "someone else's business" 

Thank you for posting. I will reread this more than once.

To add to the chorus: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. 

Whether you are in a state of panic or a state of exhaustion, realize that you have one shot at this. Accept that you will be slow, deliberately shift into that low gear, and you will get there. Even if you're getting really cold and the weather is getting really bad, take a break during your slog. Take 30 seconds to stop everything you're doing and simply pause on purpose. This resets your fight-or-flight,  get you out of flow / autopilot / zoned-out / zombie mode, and puts you back into intentional control. 

Thank you for the post. Every climber should read this.

A rope doesn't need to have a knot in the end of it to get caught when tossing the rope down for rappel. I've rapped off of desert towers when the rope was blown completely around the corner by strong wind. (fortunately we were able to retrieve it, but just barely.) And this was back in the day before I became a convert to ALWAYS tying knots in both ends when rappelling. 

I get that different situations call for different methods, and that it can be problematic to have just one way of doing certain things. But there are so many needless tragedies related to rapping off of the end of the rope, that my personal opinion is this is a habit that is absolutely worth doing EVERY time. If you're worried about the knot snagging in some way that makes retrieving the rope impossible, then saddle coil the rope and let it out a little at a time when rapping. This is a good strategy even if you aren't tying knots in the end.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Maybe you haven't experienced a welded rope with a knot in it..

No I have not. Because if there's a chance that rope can get stuck, knot or not, I don't toss it. And the fact you're here telling me that you got your rope stuck means you didn't die. All this arguing about knot getting stuck ignores that there are techniques to rap without tossing the rope, and like someone else mentioned, rope without a knot can get stuck too. Whoever mentioned weather in the mountains, if you are in the mountains and weather moves in, don't toss the rope. Also, go find an accident of a party dying of exposure, frozen on the wall because their rope is stuck due to a knot at the end. For every one of those you can find, I can probably find ten of people dying rappelling off the end of the rope. If you toss the rope, tie a knot. If you don't want to tie a knot at the end of the rope, saddle bag it and tie the ends to yourself. Of course it's a free country you can do whatever you want, PWZ. But from a risk management perspective, tossing the rope AND not tying end knots is just not a smart thing to do.

aikibujinwrote:

People use this as an argument for not tying a knot at the end of the rope a lot, which really is a failure in risk management. Risk has two components: a probability of something bad happening, and the consequence (outcome). Putting aside all the different ways to mitigate rappelling in strong wind that's already mentioned in the thread, what's the consequence of your rope getting stuck? Now you're stuck on the wall and need rescuing. Big deal. What's the consequence of rappelling off the end of your rope? YOU DIE. Let's not use rope getting stuck as an argument anymore against something that can potentially save someone's life.

Getting stuck on a wall could very well be a big deal. You could die of exposure, die from a lightning storm, etc. I’m all for using knots but I will saddle the rope or at the very least clip the ends to me.

Is there an alternative rappel technique that we could use?  For example, rappelling with your arm extended behind you, looking over your shoulder.  This way you would see the rope ends and maybe the higher hand could grab the rope.

This picture is just to illustrate the stance, not to suggest feeding the rope over your shoulder.

Page 2 homies- 

Whole lotta RUSHING to make binary claims about an insanely complex and varied topic- the opposite of the OPs message.  Not a whole lotta slowing down and checking yourself before you act.  

Whole lotta, my system is perfect, I'LL BE SAFE with my system- the opposite of the OPs message.  Not a whole lotta thinking like a beginner, analyzing each situation with a fresh perspective and critical thought.

If I were the OP reading the last dozen posts or so here (less Petey from NYC) I'd be clenching my fists screaming "DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST???"  Which I believe had little to do with tying knots and everything to do with mindset and approach.