Grivel Twin-Gate Carabiners...?

I'm curious to poll the audience regarding Grivel's Twin Gate Carabiners. Full disclosure - I have many of these, and really like them, so this thread is probably somewhere between strong confirmation bias, and sincere curiosity.    (Plus, it's Friday, and who doesn't love some friendly gear-chat...)

Why aren't the more common? They're pretty quick to use, and seem to offer pretty solid security against coming un-fastened. I do understand that since they're not 3-actions, nor ANSI rated, that arborists can't use them. I guess the work-at-height crowd neither.

But for sport use, they seem fantastic. I've been very happy with them. Specifically the now discontinued K9G (oval) on my caving cow's tails, and the K6G (HMS) for some use in rigging. Obviously Grivel is somewhat specialized for Ice & Alpine climbing, but I would assume these would be popular outside of that as well. 

Anyone else use them? Love them or hate them? Am I gambling with something unsafe, and in dire need or replacing?

I'll bite bc I also am a double gate evangelist. I think they are faster (with minimal practice and familiarization) and more secure (slightly, bc the rope can't twist these open) than typical auto lockers. I have a variety on me and they are my favorite to use.

That being said I tend to avoid these in winter because the gates are hard to open with gloves. Unless they are limited use like attaching to a rope on a glacier or for an TR anchor. Additionally I got rid of the ones you pictured bc those solid gates are also harder to open relative to all of the wire gates.

My partners have all come to stop hating them and have even bought some of their own upon realizing and relishing the speed and security of use.

I have a variety of these (Plume, Sigma, and Lambda) and really like them. I use a pair of Sigmas as a locker draw for consequential spots on sport routes. I keep a Plume HMS with my emergency rap gear when doing alpine scrambles; it's small, lightweight, and works great with an ATC or for a Munter belay. I've climbed with some partners who were annoyed with clipping/cleaning them for the first time, but it's not that hard to figure out.

They are generally as light/lighter than their screwgate/standard autolock counterparts, and they typically have a higher MBS since they have two gates. It's wild to me that this style is not more common. 

Big fan of the plume. 3 stay on my harness

I carry one small wire twin gate (no longer made?) and really like them for extended pieces, anchors, and sport cleaning, but not for everything. They are fast and efficient with practice, though partners dislike them. I usually provide newer belayers/ climbers with a HMS twin gate and assisted belay device too for peace of mind. 

I rarely use screw gates standard anymore - Edelrid push slider locks and twin gates for most things except ice/ snow.

Love them and have at least 3 different models of them. I use the Plume HMS most often, but all of mine see use. 

I love my Taus and Lambda!

I use one of the big ones for taking coils during glacier travel.  

Any that use a wire gate as part of their gate are fantastic, there has been some issues of a wide outer gate not going through certain holes(one of them couldn't fit a grigri). But this is no longer an issue with the current lineup. 

Also what everyone else said. 

In my country there was an accident where the twin gates came off. The picture is a guess by the manufacturer.

But I like the twin gates.

john daviswrote:

In my country there was an accident where the twin gates came off. The picture is a guess by the manufacturer.

But I like the twin gates.

Thanks for this post, can you provide a source so we can learn more about this? 

that guy named sebwrote:

Thanks for this poster, can you provide a source so we can learn more about this? 

I found the image on a Japanese webpage. Link below, followed by translation link.

https://www.lostarrow.co.jp/info/notice/NT20190809_LA_RockupschoolNotice.html

https://www-lostarrow-co-jp.translate.goog/info/notice/NT20190809_LA_RockupschoolNotice.html?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

I use the Grivel Clepsydra S as my clip in for glacier travel and see others using it fairly frequently for that purpose as well. It works very well in a top rope solo setup as well. 

I brought my GriGri up most multis I did this season since my elbows are getting older and I experimented with using the Clepsydra S as the carabiner with it to offset the weight gains. I'm not 100% sold on it for this application, but it generally works well. In this application it is definitely more awkward than a standard key-nose carabiner, especially if you try to leave the GriGri body on the carabiner the whole time and only open the panel. I like that it can be clipped to harness/anchor without ever having both gates open giving some protection against dropping stuff, and the captured eye keeps it secure on gear loops. I have the eye on my belay loop or on the master point, so I don't view the failure mode shown above as a major concern. 

The gate opening for the eye does not have very much clearance, so if you use a carabiner master point it will not work if the master point carabiner is large round stock (photo below). You can clip any carabiner through the eye directly, but that would require opening the master point carabiner. The Petzl Rocha can pass through the eye gate, so that is what I have paired it with when using a girth hitch masterpoint.