Tuolumne Bolt Chopping

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I’d speculate that the Salathe is a popular free objective due to the bolted belays and ease of top down rehearsal. 

Not all climbs are or should be for all climbers.

It's kind of a chicken of the egg thing. I know a lot of bolts were added to the Salathe before it was free climbed.

I think being the "easiest" free climbing route on the captain Salathe is going to attract a lot of people who want to free it. So personally I think bolted belays on it are not as big a deal as bolted belays on a hard aid climb, where it should be much more of a mental commitment. Similarly with the Nose. It's had a rap route for a LONG time. And it's going to attract El Cap noobs and I think it's better they can easily bail and not impact the climbers coming up below them.

Elaine Gilstromwrote:

This thread has been rather upsetting to me because I was impacted by the Aoxomoxoa anchors being chopped. I had climbed Jonah with another of my partners with the plan to rap Aoxomoxoa and we were not comfortable with the walkoff. We specifically chose it because the most up to date info we had said we could rap and neither of us had lead anything on gear in quite a long time and just wanted something easy to do before heading home early. And one of the things we talked about as we were walking off (after leaving gear on Jonah to get down) was the potential that that missing rap anchor could kill someone, and I still firmly believe that that potential still exists.

[Initial disclaimer: I am against the chopping of this route and anchors]

First, has anyone been injured or died in the decades of using the walk-off before the new anchors existed? There's only one part of the walk-off where I use the butt-skooch in that little steep section. If you can handle the climbing on those routes, you can easily handle the walk-off.

Second, if the walk-off is that troublesome for you, you can always go to the top of the dome on 5.1 territory and walk down the backside trail to the west.

I climbed in the area this weekend for the first time, since we brought my son's friend climbing for the first time. We setup a TR for Turkey Trot, Gallipoli, Potter in Wonderland, and Far West Country. Fun, albeit low angle area. Just as we were about to pack it up a woman came rapping down looking all over for the anchors. I let he know the anchors had been chopped and sure enough her team was expecting them. I let them know they could use our TR. So they setup a rap with gear. Then she ran up on our TR to retrieve her anchor. I'm glad we could help prevent a major cluster / risky situation, thanks to the douche bag who chopped the route / anchors. I wonder how many people have been hosed there already.

The only thing I could think why someone thought it was justified to chop was that perhaps someone free soloed it first. But I haven't see any record of a climb where the bolted line was. You can't make no record of a climb, expect no one else will ever climb there, and your FA style remains if you made no mention of it. There's multiple lines ALL OVER that area you could free solo because it's just a big slab, so even if someone free soloed did they do that exact line? 

The walkoff is no steeper than the approach to West Country, Hermaphrodite Flake, The Bolt Way, Great White Book, or South Crack.

Climbers should know that getting down is as important as going up; often times more so. 

Matt Nwrote:

The walkoff is no steeper than the approach to West Country, Hermaphrodite Flake, The Bolt Way, Great White Book, or South Crack.

Climbers should know that getting down is as important as going up; often times more so. 

No one is arguing that, the point is moot.
People are expecting an anchor, not that they couldn't walk off. You make choices based upon beta you have. The chopper has made some very new print beta bunk.
Chopper probably doesn't chew their hotdogs.

It’s interesting, that after 70 plus days, and 13 pages of wailing about the trauma inducing and life threatening forced walk off caused by the  bunkifying of new print beta, that no altruistic promoter of safety and equity has not replaced the bolts on these beloved and cherished routes.

Mr Rogerswrote:

No one is arguing that, the point is moot.
People are expecting an anchor, not that they couldn't walk off. You make choices based upon beta you have. The chopper has made some very new print beta bunk.
Chopper probably doesn't chew their hotdogs.

Good point. 

As is the comment in between the quote above and this comment. 

However, an encounter with the unknown-unsuspected-etc. is part of TRADitional climbing.  A good reason for always paying attention, always surveying the terrain ahead, and learning to depend on yourself.                  It isn't Disneyland. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

It’s interesting, that after 70 plus days, and 13 pages of wailing about the trauma inducing and life threatening forced walk off caused by the  bunkifying of new print beta, that no altruistic promoter of safety and equity has not replaced the bolts on these beloved and cherished routes.

That's right, blame the victims for not sacrificing their time and effort?

You, on the other hand, are contributing less than zero.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

It’s interesting, that after 70 plus days, and 13 pages of wailing about the trauma inducing and life threatening forced walk off caused by the  bunkifying of new print beta, that no altruistic promoter of safety and equity has not replaced the bolts on these beloved and cherished routes.

I actually replaced all the bolts, (added a few for safety and improved the clipping stances), chopped them again, and camouflaged them so well no one even noticed. I’m drowning in a pool of smugness so deep you could deep water solo over here. I won three arguments people didn’t even know we were having. 

Stay tuned for my inspirational insta story later this month.

John Tuttlewrote:

That's right, blame the victims for not sacrificing their time and effort?

You, on the other hand, are contributing less than zero.

‘VICTIMS”

If someone removes or destroys a carefully and lovingly crafted route identification plaque in IC, would you consider the creator of the plaque to be a VICTIM  too?  What if a plaque was removed and a climber expecting the plaque to be there gets on the wrong route and has a traumatic experience, are they VICTIMS too?

Is not my sympathy for all of these unfortunate “VICTIMS” contribution enough? 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

‘VICTIMS”

If someone removes or destroys a carefully and lovingly crafted route identification plaque in IC, would you consider the creator of the plaque to be a VICTIM  too?  What if a plaque was removed and a climber expecting the plaque to be there gets on the wrong route and has a traumatic experience, are they VICTIMS too?

Is not my sympathy for all of these unfortunate “VICTIMS” contribution enough? 

Victors and victims,  that's life right? 

If Vic and Tim are victims to Victor’s traumatic tear, does Tim blame Vic? Tor someone else?  I’m confused.  

Wasn't this a thread about choppin' turkeys or something? 

M Mwrote:

Victors and victims,  that's life right? 

Absolutely not, but claiming to be a “victim” regarding some missing bolts, that have caused little more than a minor inconvenience, is a bit hyperbolic. 

I’m still interested why the concerned parties don’t simply replace the missing bolts, or install an independent set of rap stations.  If I needed to rap SPD that’s what I would do. If the cost of the bolts is the issue, I’ll donate 4 Fixe hangers (already camo’d) to anyone that wants to do the work.  

To the victims go the toils. 

Victims...       

I've heard of a pretty new bolted crack close to the road on a formation with some hard trad climbing. I wonder why it hasn't been chopped?

M Awrote:

I've heard of a pretty new bolted crack close to the road on a formation with some hard trad climbing. I wonder why it hasn't been chopped?

All bolted routes are equal, but some bolted routes are more equal than others.

If it was 20 years ago when I spent a lot of time in Yosemite, I'd replace the bolts (at least the anchors). Unless someone gave me evidence that line had been free soloed before. But I'm lucky if I get to Yosemite a few times a year nowadays and I'm not spending that time fixing some anonymous coward's botch job.

The women that expected the anchor when I was there, were talking about downclimbing it, before I offered my TR to retrieve their anchor. They were very set on not leaving any gear. So chances are they would've down free soloed it if I was not there. Yes, they would have made that choice to take that risk, but if someone slipped and died / got hurt part of the blame for the situation goes to the anonymous coward.

Gloweringwrote:

If it was 20 years ago when I spent a lot of time in Yosemite, I'd replace the bolts (at least the anchors). Unless someone gave me evidence that line had been free soloed before. But I'm lucky if I get to Yosemite a few times a year nowadays and I'm not spending that time fixing some anonymous coward's botch job.

The women that expected the anchor when I was there, were talking about downclimbing it, before I offered my TR to retrieve their anchor. They were very set on not leaving any gear. So chances are they would've down free soloed it if I was not there. Yes, they would have made that choice to take that risk, but if someone slipped and died / got hurt part of the blame for the situation goes to the anonymous coward.

Can’t you just go up to the regular walk-off?