Are Dissenting Views Inherently Trolls

Cory Nwrote:

Trolling died with burchy’s and tradiban’s latest exits

RIP Tradiban fr. Miss watching him rage-bait people in forums    

So where do bots fit in to all of this?

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

When someone holds an unpopular opinion, do we automatically assume they’re trolling? How do you distinguish between genuine disagreement and trolling? Can you share an example from Mountain Project where someone strongly disagreed with you, you had a detailed discussion, and you felt they were not trolling? 

I was in New Zealand around 2018, and someone told me I was an amazing troll, posting things just to troll everyone. I thought I knew what a troll was, but it wasn't until I watched the South Park episode on trolling that I realised what he thought I was doing, which wasn't the case. What I was posting about was what most Gen Xers were brought up to do: to adopt a punk attitude, to kick against the pricks, questioning the establishment and the status quo, something that seemed increasingly necessary as society in the 2010s became increasingly intolerant, coercive, and puritanical (only disguised as tolerance, love and freedom). The term 'trolling' is like the label of being a contrarian, in that it's a way to dismiss people who point at the king and say he has no clothes.

When someone calls you a troll, or threatens to unfriend you, or not buy what you're selling, to revoke your social tenure, it's them putting their greasy hand over your mouth. Most people just shut up, some bite. Still, the smart ones do what dissidents have often done, thread their unpopular opinions into stories, fictions, sci-fi, poetry, where it's not the writer, but the reader who is guilty by interpretation (of course, you will have to defend yourself from having to explain what it is you meant when people are unable to work it out themselves, or who are looking for an easy conviction). 

This would be an example of that (during lockdown, I had a lot of people email me about this story).

I think if you stick to your moral code, and walk the line, and not fall into either extremism or servitude, self-correct rather than be reeducated, don't be an asshole, or a bigot (and anti-bigot), then that's all you can do. 

But sometimes, when we 'troll', it's less to make a point, but rather to make the point that we can.

J W wrote:

Is the dictum “Don’t point!” as common a dictum across the pond as it is here?

At any rate, may I offer a revised version (as gently as I can)?

If one must point, point not to the artist, but to the art.

Attacking the messenger while ignoring the message is the American way, this why we have a wannabe dictator in the white house. People don't want to think, they want to consume and be told what to do so they can continue to easily consume. 

Jordan Wilsonwrote:

Was Burchy the knife guy?

Yes

J W wrote:

I want to be sure I understand. Are you suggesting this is how you interpret my comment, namely, that I’m attacking the messenger while ignoring the message?

You didn't understand correctly 

M Mwrote:

Attacking the messenger while ignoring the message is the American way, this why we have a wannabe dictator in the white house. People don't want to think, they want to consume and be told what to do so they can continue to easily consume. 

or a majority voters did actually used their brains and didn't buy what the "word salad queen" and her backers were selling:  no effective borders, completely uncontrolled economic migration, defund the police, men can get pregnant, forever wars, industrial globalization and out-sourcing our own determent, shut up and take your 10th booster shot.

Nope clearly had nothing to do with it...  

Jim Uwrote:

or a majority voters did actually used their brains and didn't buy what the "word salad queen" and her backers were selling:  no effective borders, completely uncontrolled economic migration, defund the police, men can get pregnant, forever wars, industrial globalization and out-sourcing our own determent, shut up and take your 10th booster shot.

I'm struggling to understand your position on word salad. Is this something you're endorsing?

Jim Uwrote:

or a majority voters did actually used their brains and didn't buy what the "word salad queen" and her backers were selling:  no effective borders, completely uncontrolled economic migration, defund the police, men can get pregnant, forever wars, industrial globalization and out-sourcing our own determent, shut up and take your 10th booster shot.

As valid as those issues were/are, I strongly doubt the ~2.7 m who swayed the election are that thoughtful about the actual issues. Trump was simply more entertaining and edgy than Harris, and appeared to be less influenced by establishment politics. 

Logan Petersonwrote:

Jim Uwrote:

I'm struggling to understand your position on word salad. Is this something you're endorsing?

lol absolutely!  we are unburdened by what can be and dodged a bullet of would have been

 less influenced by establishment politics. - for sure.  the uni-party establishment needs to be crushed.   Yes Gov't is not a business...but at one point someone needs to say WTF????

I think this thread has something very interesting to teach us about what is wrong with the country.

It’s an unsuccessful troll thread with few responses. But it’s been knocking around a while. Page 2 is pretty early to descend into poorly considered political opinion. But 6 days is right about on time.

That suggests “political” wingnuttery isn’t a function of replies or engagement, but just a function of time. It’s not like 1 in 50 replies is going to be shite and spin a thread off into nonsense, like we might expect. It’s just clock time counting down till thread cancer. Fascinating!

Sep Mwrote:

Everything that could be said on mountain project has been said. It is a circle. The question is how do you make a thread that is unique and interesting.

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

 The question is how do you make a thread that is unique and interesting.

Do you have answers for the questions you raise here and in your other threads?

That suggests “political” wingnuttery isn’t a function of replies or engagement, but just a function of time.

It's people, specific people. This thread is a perfect example - I don't see the wing nuttery, not because any given topic is blocked. You will find the wing nuttery is the spawn of "The Usual Suspects." Block one or two of them, is all it takes. And never open a post that is blocked because it responds to the user you blocked... no good will come from it; ever. Put them in the box and throw away the key. 

Sep Mwrote:

It’s just clock time counting down till thread cancer. Fascinating!

Threads like this used to take place around a table, when we used to be able to talk to each other less judgmentally, where the formatting of a response to something someone said helped to develop your ideas, or modify them (some things sound great in your head, but not so great when you say them out loud). Now, the only people you can really talk to honestly are people who think like you, but what's the point in that kind of circle jerk? Online, it can be a waste of time, as few people actually read what others have said, so why spend the time writing anything worth reading? It's just a running tap. However, suppose you view it more as journaling (where you are essentially talking to yourself). In that case, it's likely a good use of your time (if one-sided), as at least you express how you feel in a somewhat public way, you express it (you get it out), and now and again, someone reads it, and sometimes, they also understand it. 

Andy Kirkpatrickwrote:

Threads like this used to take place around a table, when we used to be able to talk to each other less judgmentally, where the formatting of a response to something someone said helped to develop your ideas, or modify them (some things sound great in your head, but not so great when you say them out loud). Now, the only people you can really talk to honestly are people who think like you, but what's the point in that kind of circle jerk? Online, it can be a waste of time, as few people actually read what others have said, so why spend the time writing anything worth reading? It's just a running tap. However, suppose you view it more as journaling (where you are essentially talking to yourself). In that case, it's likely a good use of your time (if one-sided), as at least you express how you feel in a somewhat public way, you express it (you get it out), and now and again, someone reads it, and sometimes, they also understand it. 

Sometimes being a key word. I definitely hate conversational circle jerks, just about as much as I hate uneducated and uninformed know it alls when talking about divided subjects. 

"Shooting the shit" and dropping the super serious persona can be fun, just not with Karens and Bobs. 

And yes, I'm a full time troll(to many), mainly because I want to understand and feel all viewpoints.

No

Jeb Wennrichwrote:

No

Well that certainly adds to the conversation. 

Marc801 Cwrote:

Well that certainly adds to the conversation. 

Succinct and to the point.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Succinct and to the point.

We could use more of that around here.