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Backing up lanyard PAS on multipitch rappel?
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Typically, when I have a chain-style PAS, I can just clip two of the loops through two separate bolts when rapping on a multipitch, but I'm not seeing a way to do this with a lanyard (e.g., Petzl Connect). What's peoples' approach for this? |
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Build a quick sliding x with an alpine draw you're already carrying, and clip your connect adjust to that. Building the X only takes 5 secs and it saved a friend's life in patagonia when a piton blew |
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I usually try and clip a draw between the two bolts and then just clip my tether to one bolt. |
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Do what Tony said, or when you replace your Connect stock cord with something else leave it long and tie the far end onto a small biner - now you can clip both bolts with your lanyard. |
Big Redwrote: I'm really surprised that there don't seem to be manufacturers that do this to start with. Seems like a far better system that wouldn't involve much more cost or weight... |
El Duderinowrote: You would be stuck with the manufacturer’s rope choice, like it is now, which seems to be bigger than required for easy use, maybe that is intentional on their part? |
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I find it interesting that newer/intermediate climbers will spend hours learning how to build perfect anchors for going up and then just clip into single bolts/tat/mank on the way DOWN. ton of accidents recently, beef up your anchors both ways folks |
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Ideally route developers use the proper anchors for descending; two hangers joined by chain, so that when you clip to one you are clipped to both. |
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Tie two single length slings together to make an equalized non extendable anchor with tails for each person to join bolts is what I do for bolted rap lines. For PAS just girth hitch a double and extend your rappel device on an alpine butterfly. Then you have an extended rappel device with a knot that will come out pretty easily, an extended loop to clip into the anchor with that is separate from your rappel device, and no extra PAS on your harness. |
El Duderinowrote: in an ideal world you'd have some sort of back-up on your rappel rope(s), eg prusik etc. this needs to come off the rope(s) when you get to the anchor and can be used as a secondary 'leash/lanyard/sling' provided that it is long enough. i use a variety of systems but in this scenario i clip with pas/lanyard first, then clip with prusik (use leg wrap if you don't feel comfortable during that time), then remove rappel device. go in reverse order when you're back on rappel. |
old5tenwrote: This was exactly the system I was considering! Seems like it minimizes extra gear; all I'd really need is an additional locker, which I'd have. Just have to make sure my third hand is rated to serve as a sling... |
El Duderinowrote: bitd most 'prusiks' (using the general term here) were either a regular sling or knotted cord (6mm +/-). this set-up does minimize extra gear and you've already got it attached to you. depending on how you attach it you can even skip an additional locker (eg girth hitch the belay loop). check out 2. in the link below: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Rappelling you're essentially eliminating one step (using something else for back up at the anchor) and replacing it with something that you have to do anyway (unwind your rappel backup)... if your 'prusik' is too short you can extend it with a draw (but that adds the extra step back in ;-) |
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The system I typically use is a double length as my main tether with an overhand for extending raps. That goes in first on a bolt with a locker. Then I take a single length with a non-locker girth hitched to belay loop and that goes on a second bolt. I weight the single (minimizing slack in the double in case of a bolt/sling failure). Seems like a lot of faf, but I like it because I can weight the rap by taking out the non-locker on the single length sling, then take out the locker/main attachment after I weight the new system. It also gives two points going to my harness which is more comfortable on a hanging belay (less swinging back and forth). Plus, if I need to move when my partner gets to me, I feel fine clipping the short tether to move around. Would likely work even better with a adjustable PA as you have slack in the dynamic lanyard. Haven't really seen other people use this. YGD (IGD?) |
Micah Robinsonwrote: how is having your full weight tethered to a single bolt with a 60cm sling the most comfortable situation in any scenario.... single tether (double length sling, some type of lanyard, etc) into an ANCHOR (not a bolt, not a pin, a strong, redundant anchor i.e. SWAMP anchor, quad, simple overhand masterpoint etc.) is the best in 99% of situations. not sure why everyone is trying to re-invent the wheel. i am sure there is dialed two man team out there right now building real anchors on the way down, pre-rigging raps on ATCs, and using third hand backups and getting down faster than 95% of people doing wacky double tethers, simul-raps, etc. this is what I think we should be striving for IMO |
bishop triphosphatewrote: This is what I do, or often, instead of the sliding-x, I just use a SWAMP. |
Tony Danzawrote: This is what I typically do. I have a locking draw that lives on the back of my harness for this purpose and that one move where a draw becoming unclipped would be catastrophic. I use a BD nylon alpine length sling to clip myself into one bolt and connect the two bolts with the locking draw. |
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A quick draw is the way. If bolts are too far apart, then an alpine draw. Keep it simple, and it backs you and your partner up. I leave it clipped to the beaner my tether is on (one less beaner on the hanger/rings/chain etc). |
Casey Fentonwrote: I wonder how many, if any fatalities have occurred because someone was only anchored at a rappel station to a single piece? Or with a single non-locking carabiner? There certainly have been occasions when lives would have been saved if those waiting their turn at a rappel station had not anchored at all. Anchoring at a station, going up or down, just to provide desired security or needed support is different than when providing an anchored belay. The only thing I am advocating here is to perhaps open up your mind to greater situational awareness. That for sure will help stack the odds in your favor. |
Casey Fentonwrote: You speak the truth. Single tether to quad or girth hitch master point built with an alpine draw. Pre-rig the rap, upper person removes their tether, lower person removes the anchor while keeping their tether on the anchor then rappels. When they get to the next station they just have to slam on two non-lockers and they're good to go. No crowded stations, no trusting a single bolt, speed and security together. |
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Just use a quad and clip to that, one of the partners keeps their tether attached to the quad when they stow it on their harness, so you’re just attaching two non lockers each time. Works beautifully and is extremely fast. Edit: Adam, hadn’t read your comment yet when I posted mine. Great minds… lol |
old5tenwrote: Just to clarify, are you keeping the girth hitched prusik on your belay loop into the second bolt, so you've essentially got 2 separate tethers that each attach you to independent bolts? Or are you completely disconnecting the prusik and clipping it into the two anchor bolts to serve as a sort of draw between them? |
