GRIVEL DARK MACHINE X

Does anyone have familiarity with this tool?

I’ve climbed ice with the regular dark machine for a few pitches. It’s super duper light, that much I remember. The X version looks about the same but super aggressive, like the ergo. Prolly a sweet tool for drytooling.

It’s pretty sweet and Grivel stock picks are probably among the best stock picks out there imo. The X has better weight distribution over the regular dark machine, again imo, so to me it gets sticks easier. It’s just way less versatile and anything under a wi4 might cause a lot more issues with the handle bottoming out. If you’re able to get a good price for them, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. 

The Dark Machine-X is a drytooling tool. Think mostly rock but ok (at best) for WI. I went with the Dark Machines, and NOT the X version for that reason. M10+ just isn't me. Either way, Grivel still makes the best ice tools in the world imo. Also, it is NOT a big mountain tool unless you are doing some revolutionary drytooling, but even then, you'd probably have two sets of axes. They don't plunge worth a damn, WI3 is a chore given their aggressive design. I can't fathom a pre-established route in the big mountains where these would be appropriate. Better be futuristic in your FA's in them big mountains.

The tool has an uncomfortable square shaped handle, both pommels are way too small width wise, 2nd pommel is too short, not designed for matching on 1.5, and no weight in the handle makes it awkward and tiring to control. It is also extremely flexible and not as stiff as a mixed tool should be. As mentioned, somehow it is better than the regular dark machine (more weight balanced towards the head for swinging into ice) but not by much. Also, the real kicker is how they call it a carbon tool when only the handle is carbon, which is a step back in their design from their previous carbon tools. 

I've got some x's for sale in the FS forum if you wanna try them out. 

And if anyone here is just looking for a lightweight carbon-shafted tool, I'll be looking to sell a pair of Trango Kestrels before next season. Pure composite shaft, not a carbon-over-aluminum like the Grivels.

Milodobalino DogfaceKillahwrote:

The Dark Machine-X is a drytooling tool. Think mostly rock but ok (at best) for WI. I went with the Dark Machines, and NOT the X version for that reason. M10+ just isn't me. Either way, Grivel still makes the best ice tools in the world imo. Also, it is NOT a big mountain tool unless you are doing some revolutionary drytooling, but even then, you'd probably have two sets of axes. They don't plunge worth a damn, WI3 is a chore given their aggressive design. I can't fathom a pre-established route in the big mountains where these would be appropriate. Better be futuristic in your FA's in them big mountains.

Good comments keep em coming 

Christian Donkeywrote:

The tool has an uncomfortable square shaped handle, both pommels are way too small width wise, 2nd pommel is too short, not designed for matching on 1.5, and no weight in the handle makes it awkward and tiring to control. It is also extremely flexible and not as stiff as a mixed tool should be. As mentioned, somehow it is better than the regular dark machine (more weight balanced towards the head for swinging into ice) but not by much. Also, the real kicker is how they call it a carbon tool when only the handle is carbon, which is a step back in their design from their previous carbon tools. 

Good comments let’s hear more

I did receive a well conceived email about this post, I am adding the body of this message below anonymously but some good reflections on this tool.

“Regarding the dark x, if you can get a hold of the razor picks, that combo is from my experience the best ice tool available. But only for pure ice. I put 6 seasons on them and really liked them. I comfortably climb any grade of ice with them without effort and prefer them on super delicate wi6 lines where breaking ice would be catastrophic.

Dry tooling, i would stay away and just go with the xdream. Xdream should have a new dry handle coming out this season.

You’re not going to find many people out there climbing on them. I have a number of friends who use them exclusively also because it’s a more neutral wrist position…. For the old folks with arthritis.

The handles are hollow so they can dent in but Grivel has been way more generous with warranty for me. I average 300 ice pitches a year with rock mixed in and generally go through a couple sets of tools a season.

If i smashed a dark x they would just give me new ones. No other company does that. Id stay away from the forged picks. I’ve been stranded numerous times with the tips shattering for no reason.”

Rob Cotterwrote:

“Regarding the dark x, if you can get a hold of the razor picks, that combo is from my experience the best ice tool available. But only for pure ice. I put 6 seasons on them and really liked them. I comfortably climb any grade of ice with them without effort and prefer them on super delicate wi6 lines where breaking ice would be catastrophic.

Grivel Razor picks worked well for me on hard dense ice until they bent when I tried removing them when they became stuck. On soft or aerated (or similar) the pick (2.5mm) is way too thin and sheers through. I used the exact combo (Dark X with Razor picks) on a sunbaked pitch and couldn’t bury the pick deep enough to feel my weight being held. Luckily the “ice” was thick enough, where if it were any thinner it would’ve be impossible.

You’re not going to find many people out there climbing on them. I have a number of friends who use them exclusively also because it’s a more neutral wrist position…. For the old folks with arthritis.

Another benefit over the regular Dark Machines.

The handles are hollow so they can dent in but Grivel has been way more generous with warranty for me. I average 300 ice pitches a year with rock mixed in and generally go through a couple sets of tools a season.

I wouldn’t buy these tools again if I were prioritizing durability.

Id stay away from the forged picks. I’ve been stranded numerous times with the tips shattering for no reason.”

I liked the forged Ice pick design, but have also experienced them snapping. Brand new pick too.

Christian Donkeywrote:

The tool has an uncomfortable square shaped handle, both pommels are way too small width wise, 2nd pommel is too short, not designed for matching on 1.5, and no weight in the handle makes it awkward and tiring to control. It is also extremely flexible and not as stiff as a mixed tool should be. As mentioned, somehow it is better than the regular dark machine (more weight balanced towards the head for swinging into ice) but not by much. Also, the real kicker is how they call it a carbon tool when only the handle is carbon, which is a step back in their design from their previous carbon tools. 

The square handle on both Dark Machines is a feature, not a bug.  The idea is that most people wrap their tools anyway to customize and a full size handle, once wrapped, can become too big.  The square handle, once wrapped, feels great

Tomkowrote:

The square handle on both Dark Machines is a feature, not a bug.  The idea is that most people wrap their tools anyway to customize and a full size handle, once wrapped, can become too big.  The square handle, once wrapped, feels great

What does wrapping a handle have to do with the square shape? I’ve been wrapping round handles for years without once wishing it was more square. In fact, I have to apply way too much tape (too big) to square handles to prevent them from digging into my skin.

Christian Donkeywrote:

What does wrapping a handle have to do with the square shape? I’ve been wrapping round handles for years without once wishing it was more square. In fact, I have to apply way too much tape (too big) to square handles to prevent them from digging into my skin.

Square handle is more efficient to hang on, not necessarily more comfortable as you mentioned though. The more defined edges are easier to grip when you’re stupid pumped. It’s why comp tool handles are designed that way. FWIW I love the dark machine handles 

Applied a single layer of AVD pickleball grip tape to handle and shaft took DMX to Vail using Total Dry picks it’s early days but tools performed just fine on M6-8 terrain fairly stable not squirrely at all further testing required hot forged picks fairly soft require dressing with a file after each use.

Before and after AVD pickleball grip tape 

Grip tape detail 

Kevin Mcbridewrote:

Square handle is more efficient to hang on, not necessarily more comfortable as you mentioned though. The more defined edges are easier to grip when you’re stupid pumped. It’s why comp tool handles are designed that way. FWIW I love the dark machine handles 

The most popular comp tool is not a square handle so I’m not sure I understand your claim?

Christian Donkeywrote:

The most popular comp tool is not a square handle so I’m not sure I understand your claim?

What tool are you referring to

Here’s some examples of the most common comp tools today:

Kruk 

Aspeed

ICT

Forecast

Kuznia

These tools make up the lions share of the current comp tool market and every single one of them has a squared handle design.

Kevin, while I was referring to Anchars, I’ll admit that many of these handles could be considered “square” depending on your definition of what that is and how closely you’re analyzing. The point I was trying to make is that with Anchars I’ve experienced less digging into my hands than the Dark X. Also, please correct me if I’m wrong, but the newer Anchar I’ve used seem like the handle was more rounded than as indicated by the older photo you posted. I don’t disagree that a definitive edge can be advantageous, but it doesn’t have to be so uncomfortable either.

(Edit to include newer Anchar 4 handle with a more “round” shape)

Anchar with its purported ergonomic handle these required extensive taping prior to use.