New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Daniel Joder wrote:

I forgot my crack gloves.

Hi Daniel! Ever climb on the granite above Vall de Boi / Cavallers? It's in the Spanish Pyrenees straight north of Barcelona. I love that place. It's the granite climbing area in the mountains I would most like to visit again. I was there a couple of weeks in 2019 and a couple of more weeks in 2023. Barcelona is a lot of fun as well

Many J Tree cracks have abundant face holds. I love these for the fun of gear protected face climbing. They might not do much for learning pure crack technique though. I would suffer so at Indian Creek with my crepe skin and weary feet. 

Nick Badyrka wrote:

I am going to dissent on the muffling of political comments. This is a wide open forum and I appreciate that we can voice our opinions if we choose to do so.  I try and understand where people are coming from and reading various angles of discourse from a broad spectrum helps me with my understanding.  While I am way to the left of Keesee, he and I go way back and I respect him and his opinions.  
I like the climbing banter better though.  I can climb wide cracks… just don’t love em.

I also like the political talk, as long ass it stays civil. It's part of the world we live in just as much as peoples gardens and such.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

What the politards fail to recognize and understand is this: this forum is not a political talking head show. You are not providing any service here to anyone, except yourself. I certainly don't come here to read any of yalls political thoughts - ever. 

I'd get up and go to bed if campfire discussions were 100% climbing related myself,  been there and done that!

Gabeo- on the personal side, the government attack on science is affecting my family more and more everyday as my wife who studies rare and genetic diseases is finding that NIH grants that fund these studies are drying up. At the same time the laboratory she works for was in the middle of expanding to another state where they want her to go eventually,  the pickle being do we try to find a property in that state knowing that boner/hair loss/obesity research is more important than cancer/ALS/MS research according to our governments choice to kill research funding? 

The fact is that ignoring politics and getting sucked into consumeristic self centered first world BS is where we took a wrong turn. I'd love to see a planet where buying and having "stuff" was less important than people starving and trying to escape almost certain death from their crooked governments.

I know Oak Flat bouldering and the surrounding climbing areas are not world class destinations but for the middle of BF AZ it's an oasis of a huge proportion , government officials were paid well by a foreign mining company to sell it. Even Obama accepted their money 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2025/07/29/apache-women-lawsuit-oak-flat-land-swap-agreement/85411022007/

Here is a lily in the yard that the deer ate before blooming for 4 years in a row

I’m heading to the Sierra East Side in the next few days to hang with a regular climbing buddy. As is typical, I expect our campfire convos to include climbing, food, building, dogs, politics, and so much more. 

Politics can certainly be a divisive subject if one allows it to be.

For all of my Gunkish folks on this thread (there seems to be quite a few!), I just had the best 30th Anniversary dinner with my lovely wife last night in Kingston!  

We went to a place called "Le Canard Enchaine" and it was just like being in a lovely little side cafe at Font or in Paris.

Not cheap but way cheaper than I expected as my wife had a glass of very nice wine and I had a "mocktail" (just hit my one year without any alcohol anniversary!  I fully admit that it was hard to pass up the glass of Sauternes!) and we both had appetizers, entrees, and individual desserts.

Anyways, if any of you Gunks locals want a very nice French meal with great environment that doesn't completely break the bank (still pricey but not NYC French pricey), then I cannot recommend it enough!

(and no, they did not pay me or give me a free dessert to write this post!)

Emil Briggs wrote:

As a final observation on this topic I have a friend, a bit older than me, who was born in what was then East Germany a few years after WW2. Her family escaped to the west right before the Berlin wall went up. Her description of what life was like makes it clear how fortunate we are to still be able to have arguments about whether we should talk about politics in this forum. People with kids wouldn't even talk about politics in their own homes because your child repeating something in front of the wrong person could see you imprisoned, tortured or killed by the Stasi.

I've got close friend who runs an outdoor business in Knoxville, his Dad was one of Castro's secret police who used to round up people in the middle of the night before having a change of conscious and escaping in '60-'70s (can't remember exact timeframe)...  He loves asking kids about their "cool"  Che Guevara shirt...  

M M wrote:

I'd get up and go to bed if campfire discussions were 100% climbing related myself,  been there and done that!

Gabeo- on the personal side, the government attack on science is affecting my family more and more everyday as my wife who studies rare and genetic diseases is finding that NIH grants that fund these studies are drying up. At the same time the laboratory she works for was in the middle of expanding to another state where they want her to go eventually,  the pickle being do we try to find a property in that state knowing that boner/hair loss/obesity research is more important than cancer/ALS/MS research according to our governments choice to kill research funding? 

The fact is that ignoring politics and getting sucked into consumeristic self centered first world BS is where we took a wrong turn. I'd love to see a planet where buying and having "stuff" was less important than people starving and trying to escape almost certain death from their crooked governments.

I know Oak Flat bouldering and the surrounding climbing areas are not world class destinations but for the middle of BF AZ it's an oasis of a huge proportion , government officials were paid well by a foreign mining company to sell it. Even Obama accepted their money 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2025/07/29/apache-women-lawsuit-oak-flat-land-swap-agreement/85411022007/

Here is a lily in the yard that the deer ate before blooming for 4 years in a row

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. The attack on science is affecting a lot of people I know as well.  It's much harder to ignore politics when it directly impacts you or people close to you. I really feel for younger folks. 

Idaho Bob wrote:

How about everyone making a commitment to stick to climbing and closely related subjects.  Avoid politics completely and also consider avoiding lifestyle comments unless related to climbing.

so upside down pineapples at the crag are ok?  asking for a friend...lol

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

What the politards fail to recognize and understand is this: this forum is not a political talking head show. You are not providing any service here to anyone, except yourself. I certainly don't come here to read any of yalls political thoughts - ever. 

In all earnestness, and with no insult intended, and no blaming going on, as this is merely an observation: older white men in America are in general (this may not apply to you if you are poor or vulnerable and rely in any way on government services) best positioned to bury their heads in their solipsistic hobbies and ignore the entire non-climbing world around them. Unless it affects the value of their home or investment portfolio.

Crack fun on Red Tape, 1979

Photos by Harvey

Rich Ross wrote:

Crack fun on Red Tape, 1979

Photos by Harvey

Verne Clevenger. And you. 

In all earnestness, and with no insult intended, and no blaming going on, as this is merely an observation: older white men in America are in general (this may not apply to you if you are poor or vulnerable and rely in any way on government services) best positioned to bury their heads in their solipsistic hobbies and ignore the entire non-climbing world around them.

Translation: ignore the old white guy with his head in the sand.

Sure, kid. I'm a news junkie, ok? I just happen to know there is a right place and a wrong place to wave politics in everyone's face, and this place ain't it. Its boorish. 

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Translation: ignore the old white guy with his head in the sand.

Sure, kid. I'm a news junkie, ok? I just happen to know there is a right place and a wrong place to wave politics in everyone's face, and this place ain't it. Its boorish. 

Seems this place is pretty split about whether we want politics to be a part of of this endless thread. But almost everyone agrees ad hominem attacks, no matter how thinly veiled, are a real problem. I'm trying to dial back my news intake as it is, because it's honestly super depressing and impotence inducing. Which is, perhaps, your point. 

Rich Ross wrote:

Crack fun on Red Tape, 1979

Photos by Harvey

Great shots, thanks for sharing!  That crack looks so fun i had to look it up. In poking around on the net I found this old taco thread that has some cool stories about the FA, as well as lots of other great info about the Gunks BITD. Just too bad all the links and photos were stripped out: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=454584&tn=0&mr=0

(Edited to add: Fossil, i just remembered that you said you archived a bunch of this stuff in its original state. Do you happen to have this treasure trove of stories complete with photos and links?)

I would love to go work that crack someday. I would bring plenty of tape. :)

GO

Buck Rogers wrote:

For all of my Gunkish folks on this thread (there seems to be quite a few!), I just had the best 30th Anniversary dinner with my lovely wife last night in Kingston!  

We went to a place called "Le Canard Enchaine" and it was just like being in a lovely little side cafe at Font or in Paris.

Not cheap but way cheaper than I expected as my wife had a glass of very nice wine and I had a "mocktail" (just hit my one year without any alcohol anniversary!  I fully admit that it was hard to pass up the glass of Sauternes!) and we both had appetizers, entrees, and individual desserts.

Anyways, if any of you Gunks locals want a very nice French meal with great environment that doesn't completely break the bank (still pricey but not NYC French pricey), then I cannot recommend it enough!

(and no, they did not pay me or give me a free dessert to write this post!)

Buck, congratulations on your 30th anniversary and a year without alcohol---both very significant milestones !!!

That restaurant sounds great, though maybe just a bit far from here for a night out!!!

While I realize that we won't be changing the minds of anyone who has already 'decided', I still strongly believe that, especially in these times, some political discussion is appropriate, even necessary, as a part of our general discourse, even on this forum. Given that feeling, I expect that I will, when the circumstances require,continue to post the occasional political comment---those who are uninterested can and will,undoubtedly scroll past.

bryans wrote:

this is merely an observation: older white men in America are in general best positioned to bury their heads 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I I was under the impression that older white men are still pretty much running the show. I mean politics is pretty much their game. Weren't the preferred presidential candidates in the last two elections about as old and pasty white as you can get? (I'm one to talk). Aren't older white men the group most likely to vote? I'm not sure what we really need  in politics is more participation from the underrepresented old-white-man group. 

So anyways, my opinion on this is if people wanna talk politics, then go ahead. I think it can be an interesting, if thorny topic. I imagine most people here already have their minds made up on most things political, so not much wiggle-room there, but every now and then I catch something I hadn't thought of before. And if anything, the spats that can occur at least reaffirm my strong belief that people (especially me) are remarkably stubborn 

Buck Rogers wrote:

(just hit my one year without any alcohol anniversary!  I fully admit that it was hard to pass up the glass of Sauternes!)

Heck Yeah!

Keep it up, like a boss!

I've been climbing an average of 15 to 16 days per month this year so far. The combination of California weather and rock, a 12 hour per month work schedule (self employed) and a wife who is almost literally an angel make this easy (not just possible).

But all of my hopes and dreams this summer center on my favorite 23 year old in the world and the Pacific Crest Trail. Not climbing. Another set of hopes rest with my favorite 29 year old and, again, the PCT.

In April, 2007 my two daughters and I started hiking north on the PCT from the Mexican border. All with my wife's constant help and support. Over years we hiked every step of the PCT, in continuous order, up to almost 900 miles (the whole trail is 2,650 miles).

April, 2007 (with my dad):

Then older daughter Katie "dropped out" from the "continuous footsteps" to go to university (there's a dad's dilemma!). She joined us now and then, but no longer had a track of footsteps all the way from Mexico.

Tricia and I continued.

By the end of summer, 2023, Tricia and I had hiked 2,540 continuous miles together, well into northern Washington, all with my wife Vicki's help.

Red Pass in the northern Cascades, 2023:

The next summer (2024), we set aside all of August to finish 109 miles to the Canadian border. Tricia had just finished college and had time, we had Canadian trail entry visas and everything was "go" for daddy and daughter to finish.

And then fires broke out and they closed most of the trail we still had to hike. We didn't even drive up there. It's not an over statement to say that, after 17 years of this journey, I was crushed.

Tricia has a full time job now. She wasn't sure she could get time off for this summer. And yet she did. She has one week. Not enough to finish the trail... but a full week to make progress and set up a finish for us next summer, 20 years after we started.

This summer's trip starts Monday (Vicki and I leave Friday for the drive up). Everything is a go. No fires. All of the trail we want to hike is open. I may fracture a finger from keeping all of them crossed for so long and so hard, but it looks like we're going to get something done.

And Katie? After I passed from being "the least cool substance in the universe" to a pretty cool dad (from about age 16 to age 20), she eventually asked me to resume with the "continuous footsteps." This year it'll be Tuolumne Meadows to Sonora Pass (finishing a 50 minute drive from our house). So far this has been one of the three most gorgeous sections of the trail and I'm looking forward to September almost as much as I am to next week.

With Katie on the high trail/PCT out of Agnew Meadows, 2024:

I am one very lucky man. Wish the three (four) of us luck for this year's hikes?

Wow you are a lucky man, your daughters are pretty lucky too. All the best to your next endeavor!