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Buying small gear…

Original Post
Thomas Gerhart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2023 · Points: 0

I’ve been building my first frankenrack and it is almost complete from sizes .3 c4 and up but I need micros. I definitely want to buy some totems because everyone says they are magical but what about z4s/x4s, dragonfly’s, tcus, ball nuts, brass micros?? I’m talking passive and active pro. What should I buyyyy. Thanks yall

Christopher Antimie · · Orange County, CA · Joined May 2022 · Points: 30

Lots of longevity issues reported with some of the z4's- if you look up something like "deformation" on mp you'll see a recent thread about it. I like my metolius ulmc's and wild country zero friends but haven't put enough mileage on them to have an informed opinion.

Eric Craig · · Santa Cruz · Joined Sep 2024 · Points: 0

If you are just putting your first rack together get a set of Rocks or Stoppers. Your Camalots .3 and up are good. Smaller than that aren't really that useful most places until you are leading hard stuff, which maybe you already are. Brassies are generally a niche item, unless your home area demands them. Adding a set of Peenuts to Stoppers/Rocks might be a good call. 

Todd R · · Vansion · Joined May 2014 · Points: 61

I’m going to disagree with people who say you don’t need small stuff. Depending on where you climb you may need small gear long before you’re leading “hard stuff” (whatever that is).

My personal opinion as someone who climbs quite a bit of thin granite is: set of RP’s, purple and gray TCU and the Green, Red, and Yellow dragonfly. Obviously just my preference but I’ve personally owned a rack of every micro cam on the market and these have become my partners and I’s go-to’s. 

Black totems through Yellow are obviously great, but I don’t consider those micro and they’ve gotten quite expensive.

Best of luck on your whipping-on-small-gear endeavors!

Edit: I would ditto skip the ball nuts until you have a route that needs them. 

timothy fisher · · CHARLOTTE · Joined Nov 2017 · Points: 30

TCU, dragonfly, zeroes, Rocks, are all good stuff. mixing brands is always better than having multiples of the same brand. You can get size overlap that way. 

Tcu and zeroes are more stuffable but i really prefer Dragonflies.

Eric Craig · · Santa Cruz · Joined Sep 2024 · Points: 0
Todd R wrote:

I’m going to disagree with people who say you don’t need small stuff. Depending on where you climb you may need small gear long before you’re leading “hard stuff” (whatever that is).

My personal opinion as someone who climbs quite a bit of thin granite is: set of RP’s, purple and gray TCU and the Green, Red, and Yellow dragonfly. Obviously just my preference but I’ve personally owned a rack of every micro cam on the market and these have become my partners and I’s go-to’s. 

Black totems through Yellow are obviously great, but I don’t consider those micro and they’ve gotten quite expensive.

Best of luck on your whipping-on-small-gear endeavors!

Edit: I would ditto skip the ball nuts until you have a route that needs them. 

Looks like multiple references to my post above. Nowhere in that post does it say you don't need small stuff. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

"Hard stuff" would be 5.11+ old school trad routes. Thin crack routes that fall into this category are by nature almost always different in character than 5.6, 5.7, 5.8, 5.9 thin crack routes. Those differences in character are what makes the one group hard, and the other easy to moderate. The differences affect the character of prevalent available gear placements in addition to the affecting the climbing technique required to be successful. In my experience climbing at most all the major areas in the western US and Canada, a little bit in the east, and lots of little areas, there are very few places where ditching the nuts is smart. Especially so at moderate grades. And there are plenty of climbs where if you don't carry nuts you are really fucking yourself. Unless you don't know how to use them because you never bothered to learn. 

There are other benefits to nuts over micro to small cams, especially for learning trad leaders.

I have owned and used RP nuts since about the first month they were available in the US, in Camp 4, sold by a visiting Australian buddy of Roland Pauligk. About 1975. I rarely leave home without them. As I stated in my original post, "brassies are generally a niche item, unless your home area demands them ".

Owen Smith · · Huntington, WV · Joined Oct 2021 · Points: 0

Want to piggyback on this and ask for some opinions, are the alien revolutions a good choice for smaller cams? I’m also struggling to find what I want to build out the smaller end of my rack (currently using friends .4-3) and the aliens being on sale has caught my interest. 

Todd R · · Vansion · Joined May 2014 · Points: 61

Eric - wasn’t trying to attack your post. Sorry if it came off that way. I learned to climb around Eldo, lumpy, and south platte where micro cams and RPs are often required gear long before the 11+ grade. So was just saying buying micros and RPs I think makes a lot of sense even for a newer trad leader.

Also yeah - definitely don’t ditch the nuts. I was just offering what gear I like on the micro end of things. Not advocating replacing standard nuts with RPs.

Just trying to help the OP out per their “tiny assortment” question. 

Todd R · · Vansion · Joined May 2014 · Points: 61
Owen Smith wrote:

Want to piggyback on this and ask for some opinions, are the alien revolutions a good choice for smaller cams? I’m also struggling to find what I want to build out the smaller end of my rack (currently using friends .4-3) and the aliens being on sale has caught my interest. 

Lots of people have used aliens forever and love them even though they’ve obviously been through some changes. I would venture to guess if you don’t have strong opinions on small cams you will like whatever you wind up with as any micro cam is better than no micro cam. 

George M · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2019 · Points: 136

just to add another 2c... small gear can get a lot more finicky and it really makes sense to buy it as you need it. if you buy a rack of Dragonflies your next project that needs small gear might have a perfect placement right between the yellow and blue sizes, and the yellow X4 or black totem might be a much better placement there. 

if you really want to buy small gear right now, start with a black totem and maybe a yellow dragonfly, and the two largest DMM offset brassies. The 0.1 and 0.2 WC Zeros use a thinner gauge cable than the 0.3 and up and kink and twist really easily, they become pretty hard to use after a couple falls (but I love the 0.3+ sizes). depending on where and what you're climbing, you'll know when you need an in-between or smaller size or offset cam etc. Ballnuts are fun but keep in mind their usable range is very narrow and if you take a big enough fall on them they *will* weld into place (ask me how I know). 

Another climber made this site which is very useful for determining what you need: climber-guide.github.io/roc…

Eric Craig · · Santa Cruz · Joined Sep 2024 · Points: 0

Hi Todd, thank you for your respectful response to my somewhat snarky post.

Interesting the areas in CO you mention, I have been all those places. I would bet you have done many more routes in them than me. So it appears our differences in opinion,  which might not even be that big, are probably based on generational differences. Maybe both perspectives are fine.

Skyler Flora · · Spokane, WA · Joined Nov 2020 · Points: 7

It doesn't matter, all the 4 lobe cams are safe and effective. You don't need brassies or ballnuts unless you find a route that needs it. I personallyhate z4s but it's an arbitrary user experience nuance and it should be apparent from this thread that other than "black totem good" there is not any consensus. I have preferences but I don't particularly care what brand my partner brings to the table.

I mostly agree with George's advice up thread, I think black totem is chunkier than other micro cams and you could own both, but I'd just get ULMC 00-1 if you want to have micros now. Metolius has the best customer service and hardware support and they're regularly on sale, I bought a full set as filler for my rack and I really like 00-4 a lot, best value for your dollar in micros to fingers imo. Under the .3 BD even the z4s are single axle and don't offer extra range or other significant benefit over the mastercam value proposition. Get whatever is a good deal and go use them.

Professor Watermelon · · MADISON · Joined May 2017 · Points: 0

Ball Nuts for the win.

Joe Mohan · · Irvine, CA / Mammoth Lakes, CA · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 185

for me it boils down to which cam am i most likely to place correctly on the first try, especially when pushing into an unfamiliar crack size. simply put I got for the biggest range regardless of brand. 

Cam Size Comparison Chart | Sizing Guide - Rock+Run

Bailey Moore · · Sierras · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 565

Small totems and offset nuts are the most versatile and advanced pieces ever needed in a route requiring a "standard rack". As long as you have those, any other small gear you need will be either be region specific or in route beta.

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

  Micro stoppers are part of a standard rack INMOP as are cams down to purple TCU I have a set of ball nuts that I never use.   Not even on first ascents. If it really needs a ball nut I slam in a lost arrow or fire in a bolt.   I am absolutely heavy on the small stoppers.  A perfectly placed #5 purple bd  stopper is smaller but way more truck than  micro cam placements. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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