New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Ship Twrote:

Watching that video made me realize how boring of a sport climbing is to watch.  

I’m two episodes into The Climb. I dunno. The whole hyped up tone of the show is a big turn off. I suppose it needs to be that way so that the non-climbing masses can get excited about it. But it has the opposite effect for me… I want that shit turned off. It feels like a rock climbing version of Survivor. It gets pretty dull to watch these 'professional climbers' pretty damn fast.

Watching the whole group cheering and yelling is so anti- to the experience that I prefer in climbing. Certainly it’s also to add drama and interest to the show, but such spraying is also common place and climbing these days. Bleh.

In spite of all this, I do have a favorable impression of Sharma. He comes across as pretty genuine. I identify with him a whole lot more than Alex Honnold. And he deserves much stronger billing than Jason Mamoa, who seems to be there primarily for starpower attraction, and not much else.

Ward Smithwrote:

Wow.  Have you guys actually ever climbed a hard sport route?  To each his own, but boring to me that was not. 

I was referring to the Joshua tree trad climb video, not the smith rock sport climb video. The smith rock video was definitely more interesting. Probably has something to do with the camera work.

I like edited climbing videos that show the send without all the hanging and thinking part. I know thats part of the game and don't need to watch it. 

Ship Twrote:

Watching that video made me realize how boring of a sport climbing is to watch.  It's such a fun sport to do, but to observe, it is just too slow and meticulous sometimes.  I got less than halfway through before giving up. Maybe it was just that particular video.

Back in the 1950s, after seeing gymnasts perform, I surmised that watching almost any sort of traditional climbing was not a sustaining experience. Those were days that were years away from the introduction of sport climbing and modern bouldering. However, the one climbing event in a gym meet, the rope climb, had great spectator appeal - its performance took only a few seconds - but artistic gymnasts abhorred it and felt it should have been a track & field event, and eventually it was dropped from the Olympics and NCAA meets. 

My thoughts on bouldering included an almost entire focus on difficulty and, strangely, spectator appeal. Hence short "performances" , more dynamics, and graceful presentations. Later there would be the Zen aspect and so on. My B-system of grading was an attempt to steer the sport away from number chasing, a strong part of rock climbing even then. That failed, of course, since bouldering is a part of the rock climbing experience. 

What parts of the Olympic climbing venue attract the most spectator appeal? I am guessing that bouldering and speed climbing evoke the interests of casual spectators more the sport climbing. But John Long and I are addicted to the bouldering event.

But then, who cares? Climbing is a doing sport and in general not a watching sport.

I’m two episodes into The Climb. I dunno. The whole hyped up tone of the show is a big turn off. I suppose it needs to be that way so that the non-climbing masses can get excited about it.

Man, that show sucks donkey balls. They should be ashamed of themselves for such schlock.

The Trump administration is being accused again of seeking to quickly dismiss charges against a top MS-13 leader to prevent him from revealing secret dealings with Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele.

The man in question is Vladimir Antonio Arevalo-Chavez, according to The Guardian, and believed to be a top member of the gang. He stands accused of racketeering, terrorism and conspiring to commit narco-terrorism. The outlet noted that a filing from the Justice Department seeks to dismiss charges against him for "sensitive and important foreign policy considerations." The defendant is still in the country and his attorneys are asking for more information about the reason for the decision.

"The 'geopolitical and national security concerns' appear to be an effort by the government to support a 'deal' with El Salvador to assist Bukele in suppressing the truth about a secret negotiation he had with MS-13 leaders in return for our government using El Salvador prisons," said the alleged gang members' attorneys in a filing.

His case is not the first. Earlier this month, a judge dismissed charges brought against Henry Villatoro Santos, also accused of being a gang leader.

Villatoro Santos' attorneys questioned the DOJ back then, with Muhammad Elsayed calling it an "unusual case." He added that the court had to determine whether the motion "was made in good faith" as the DOJ did not provide any "explanation whatsoever" for withdrawing the charges.

Nick…. Respectfully. Why do you post this political garbage? Do you think we give a whoot?

If you can’t stand the way the election went for you, guess what, this is still America.
Democracy is still in full force. We have another election coming up really soon. You get a chance to vote for something different.

Don’t waste it.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Nick…. Respectfully. Why do you post this political garbage? Do you think we give a whoot?

If you can’t stand the way the election went for you, guess what, this is still America.
Democracy is still in full force. We have another election coming up really soon. You get a chance to vote for something different.

Don’t waste it.

Sorry, Guy but it is not at all certain that we will in fact have another election soon--and especially not an honest one, as Trump and his minions are working very hard at undercutting voting rights and firing those who seek to maintain fair elections. He is pardoning very dangerous individuals, including the January 6 rioters --along them the Proud Boys and other neo-Nazis, and just said that he will likely pardon those who plotted to kidnap and kill MI Gov. Whitmer--likely so that he will have totally loyal 'shock trooos' to support whatever excuse he uses to undercut future elections. Additionally the literally daily damage that is being done to our democratic system does require constant illumination and resistance. I know that you are an intelligent person, and believe that you have what you feel are valid reasons ( seemingly based upon your negative experiences in liberal California) for supporting Trump, but I think you should be willing to open your eyes to the very real damage that he is causing. I respect you and agree with you on many things, but on politics, it appears to me that your perspective is very narrow and grossly mistaken.

Misty Gunks, late 70's.

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Actually, he really isn't tough. He had an operation at four years old to remove his humerus and replace it with his fibula. First time it's ever been done. Other option was to amputate. While he still has two arms, one is a lot shorter and smaller than the other. he's also just generally a small person. At almost 18 he looks like he's 12. Imagine growing up as a young person with this little arm? So he almost always tries to cover up. He's so empathetic though. After leaving the cardiologist office he said to the doctor 'enjoy the rest of your day'. The doctor probably thought 'me enjoy my day? that's easy for me, harder for you...'

And that right there is the definition of "one tough kiddo"

I completely meant no reference to physicality when I said it in my earlier post.

Mental toughness and overcoming obstacles  has always impressed me much more than physical attributes.

Once again, you've got one tough kiddo for a grandson right there. I imagine that you are rightfully VERY proud.

And just a quick update after Dragons and my second day out at the Gunks today!

She was incredibly kind and let me lead all pitches as she has led them all in the past and could see my excitement!

We did Three Pines, Beginners Delight, and Casa Emilio.  Eight pitches and eight rappels and the icing on the cake was that we had been flirting with rain all later afternoon but it didn't start until we were walking back in the trail towards our cars!

I have to say that I absolutely LOVED Casa Emilio!  I wonder why it doesn't get more love on MP???

My car is in the shop, so couldn't travel to the Gunks or anyplace far, but had a great two days at a couple of my local crags. Excellent conditions, fun climbs, great company---what it is all about--or, at least, should be. Fortunately my wife's vehicle is still functional, so heading up to Acadia for a few days tomorrow morning. Don't know how much climbing will get done, but always a great time there.

Buck Rogerswrote:

And that right there is the definition of "one tough kiddo"

I completely meant no reference to physicality when I said it in my earlier post.

Mental toughness and overcoming obstacles  has always impressed me much more than physical attributes.

Once again, you've got one tough kiddo for a grandson right there. I imagine that you are rightfully VERY proud.

Cheers. Yes I am proud of him :-)

Guy Keeseewrote:

Democracy is still in full force. 

You’d know better than I, I’m just observing from far away, but it sure don’t look like it!

I’m disturbed as most about the wide variety of damage that is being done to our Country under this administration, but I’m also sick of the constant doomsaying in response to it. The only ‘resistance’ that is going to change anything is an alternative leadership vision that is well communicated and strikes a chord with the populace. There is nothing even remotely resembling this right now, and the strategy of ‘Trump Bad - vote for Democrats’ will fail just like it did last time.

GabeOwrote:

Awesome!  That move at full extension, at 1:40 in the video, far above his last clip, reaching for a sloper, and presumably pumped out of his mind, must have been very exciting. Dare I say, committing?  I'm curious, how tall is he?  Looks like that move would not go for sometime any shorter. Edited to add, I looked it up and it seems he's 5'7".  So height would not be the limiting factor for most climbers. 

Anyway, great capture of a great send. Congrats to you both!

GO

Gabe,

 Kyle is not tall so I don't think reach would be the problem for most aspirants, but definitely reachy if you are shorter than 5'7".  After he reaches that hold and clips he appears to rest for almost a minute, what is easily missed is that he is resting in the thick of it and not at all where he wanted to rest which is where he finally says "holy fuck", so basically stopping mid move on probably 5.13 ground, totally gassed, struggling to get something back to make it to a real rest less than a body length above. An amazing performance by any measure. This was my first ever video shoot, I want to do more.

GabeOwrote:

You are welcome to your opinion, but I think the difficulty rating of a climb is supposed to tell you how hard the climbing is.  I've done many many many climbs where very unique sequences need to be figured out, but once they are the climb indeed feels correct for the grade.  Those are rated for the "redpoint".  Others are straightforward, and are rated for the "onsight".  But truth to tell, both are simply rated for the difficulty of the movement required to send the climb (or pitch). Simplest to leave it at that.  Once you realize that, you also realize that a clean TR ascent is just as good as a lead to make a judgement about the difficulty.

I'm a little late replying to this but how one defines hard has some bearing on this discussion. Placing gear on trad lines can make a huge difference to physical difficulty. Of course it helps knowing both the movement and gear beta but you're still going to be carrying more weight and spending more time hanging on than if TR'ing it. Onsighting a gear line is even harder since in many cases you have to carry a lot more gear than required since you don't necessarily know in advance what you need. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Don’t waste it.

Guy, sometimes I have to shake my head, but lets not go there.

However, I will remind you that central Oregon can easily be "on the way" to or from southeastern Idaho.

You will never have a better chance for free rope gun services at Smith, you gotta pluck these opportunities when presented.

That offer is good for any of the rest of ya too, if ya dare.

Guy. we have the most criminal and  corrupt administration  in the history of our country.  When it comes to actually governing they are the most incompetent as well. They are very competent at criminal behavior. trump is literally selling pardons for 1 million dollars.  Unless of course you are a cop killer that says nice things about him. those pardons are free.  Here in Vermont we have masked unmarked secrete police snatching people off the streets and disappearing them.  Did you watch the West point commencement speech?   You apparently like this shit. Is what it is. 

Fossil, you lost me at the if you dare  comment. I am way too old for that macho crap. 

I’m wondering if we want to revisit the idea of a separate thread for this group to talk politics.  My reasoning is first and foremost we’ve driven some of our group away, probably permanently, because they just don’t wanna see it on a climbing thread.  They have to look at it everywhere else, they don’t want to see it here.

Secondly, to my mind, the current political situation has become much larger issue than just griping about it at election time.  After Memorial Day posts that came out of TruthSocial it has been VERY for me to restrain myself and not repost and start another angry topic here. 

In light of all that is happening it seems we could use a place to discuss, however often or much we want while not worrying that we’re putting it in the face of folks who are just here to talk about climbing.

Just my two cents. Things have changed.