New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

If anyone is seriously interested in what went down (electorally) in Germany in the late 1920s and early 1930s, I can recommend Thomas Childers, The Nazi Voter (1983).  Older treatment now but still holding up.

PRP was recommended to me by my ortho as something to try after P.T. but before knee surgery.  He says that it works quite well for some people.

Jan Mcwrote:

It is a really large program that has access to a really well indexed database of what others have written.  It is well enough written that it can parse a question apart and lookup the approved answers to each part of the question and put the answer together in a reasonable sentence structure.  That is the extent of what an AI does.  It is an LLM, not an AI.  Should we ever actually invent an AI then you should be scared.  What should scare you about LLMs is that idiots think it is something more than it is and act accordingly.

Yeah that is what an LLM does and also pretty much how a human baby learns to talk,  What I meant by "intelligent" is more in the vein of "thinking".  Something that might pass the Turing Test:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

With all the angst that the various chat platforms are causing it seems clear that they are pretty close to passing.

Lori Milaswrote:

Black Hills Gold! I've wanted to try this ever since I first saw it, though I was told it was 5.10b. The comments here on MP.com about it are pretty funny - It's described as 10a, 10+, or a good warm-up, depending on who is commenting. 

Did Bob lead this or scramble up to hang the rope? I'd like to T/R this but didn't see a way up to the top that looked safe to me. 

Brandt Allenwrote:

Black Hills Gold! I've wanted to try this ever since I first saw it, though I was told it was 5.10b. The comments here on MP.com about it are pretty funny - It's described as 10a, 10+, or a good warm-up, depending on who is commenting. 

Did Bob lead this or scramble up to hang the rope? I'd like to T/R this but didn't see a way up to the top that looked safe to me. 

Oh I think you would really enjoy this!  

Bob scrambled up to hang the top rope, but he also climbed it to refresh on the sequences and mark them for me. It’s a difficult route to work on by top rope because it is both overhanging and diagonal and I was struggling with rope pull. It was hard enough to keep my balance while also fighting the rope pulling me to the right.

The crux move is a humdinger.  It bothers me that I didn’t try harder on that move, but I was still getting used to the idea of a swing on those rocks.

I’m sure you can do it!  

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

How about a reset? Part 2

All that matters, is I keep coming back, to the rock, to the vertical world. And it’s that coming back part, and all the other pieces of the journey to there and back again, that’s the parts we all love. The love is in the doing of this irrational and yet instinctive thing we call climbing.

Damn!  That was some Brutus of the Wyde style poetry right there.... 

Thank You

Brandt Allenwrote:

Black Hills Gold! I've wanted to try this ever since I first saw it, though I was told it was 5.10b. The comments here on MP.com about it are pretty funny - It's described as 10a, 10+, or a good warm-up, depending on who is commenting. 

Did Bob lead this or scramble up to hang the rope? I'd like to T/R this but didn't see a way up to the top that looked safe to me. 

Hey Brandt, if you go there to set up a TR, scramble around to the left, it’s a pretty straight forward solo to get up there (easy 5th class). Bring a #2 Camalot and a tether (I used a 48-inch nylon sling). You can clip in to the cam while you maneuver down to reach the anchor, otherwise it’s a little dicey to reach it.

Excellent! Thanks Bob.

Murf - Funny you should say that - As I was reading Cherokee's story I was thinking of when Bruce and I climbed the Prow in 1984.

Jan Mcwrote:

It is a really large program that has access to a really well indexed database of what others have written.  It is well enough written that it can parse a question apart and lookup the approved answers to each part of the question and put the answer together in a reasonable sentence structure.  That is the extent of what an AI does.  It is an LLM, not an AI.  Should we ever actually invent an AI then you should be scared.  What should scare you about LLMs is that idiots think it is something more than it is and act accordingly.

Unfortunately those idiots include individuals with vast amounts of wealth and influence. One of the motivations for the current destruction of the federal government is the belief that LLM's can replace large swaths of it, and of course ensure large profits for the providers.

On the topic of having friends who are Trump supporters. I think it's probably easier if you personally aren't worried about direct harm to yourself or your loved ones from administration policies. But the thing about authoritarian governments is that while they may have substantial initial support almost inevitably everyone except a small circle around the leader winds up regretting it.

Murfwrote:

Damn!  That was some Brutus of the Wyde style poetry right there.... 

Thank You

First thing I thought of too.

And damn, Cherokee, what about the photos??!!   This fits right in with some of your old trip report/stories but those had photos (don't tell me that you didn't have a camera along - is it even possible in the modern world to not document every move and then post it??).

Love you. Mean it.

Oh, and you ought to see some of the stuff we're putting up here now....

Shoulder felt good today so after some bouldering and hangboard warm up I did a bunch of V2 problems at 50 degrees on the kilter board to test it out.  If you have never climbed on an adjustable board, it is a lot of fun.  You use an app to light up the problems; this is “Johnny Walker” (V2). Green are the starting holds; blue hands and feet; orange feet only; pink the finish.  The grades are definitely stiffer at 50 than at 40, I think that a lot of really good climbers use it at 50 and sandbag.

Hey all, thanks on the deep water tips. I appreciate it. .   

Grading:  Route grading.. what about boulder grading. I mean how wacky can it be.. for examply HP40 a V2 I was on this year would have been a 5 in most places. Hell that entire spot is sandbagged. But to me, bouldering grades are so vastly different anywhere you go.

Kilter board in my gym here in ATL.. It is fun, but man can it just humble and piss you off like no other!  

Emil Briggswrote:

On the topic of having friends who are Trump supporters. I think it's probably easier if you personally aren't worried about direct harm to yourself or your loved ones from administration policies. But the thing about authoritarian governments is that while they may have substantial initial support almost inevitably everyone except a small circle around the leader winds up regretting it.

I learned yesterday of the first suicide I have heard about by a federal employee impacted by firings by this administration.

So much to be optimistic about 120 days in, only 1340 to go!

Cherokee N, that was beautiful!  Thank you for sharing your writing! 

GO

M Spraguewrote:

That was a joke. I thought I indicated it by /S   .I  guess -jk would be clearer.

I don't think we were really dogpiling, nor anyone has any lasting feelings of ill will towards him, just some of his views expressed seemed a bit tone deaf to the danger and immense human suffering and backwardness caused by these dictators and their acolytes. Naturally he got some questioning and pushback, and a few pretty mild snarky comments.

I disagreed with a lot of the things he posted about that didn't involve climbing, but he seemed earnest in his posts, so I didn't like when everyone seemed to be slagging on him and he left. That's it.

Ship Twrote:

I disagreed with a lot of the things he posted about that didn't involve climbing, but he seemed earnest in his posts, so I didn't like when everyone seemed to be slagging on him and he left. That's it.

Li says lots of wacky things- we all do.

Brad you’re not supposed to “out” someone.

That fabulous write up by Cherokee is probably the best thing ever posted on MP.

Hail Brutus! 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Brad you’re not supposed to “out” someone.

I agree, but I didn't think his identity was ever in question? In case I was wrong, I'll scroll back up and edit my comment!

EDIT: and in my defense, he's done a huge amount of climbing up here on Sonora Pass and has always been called by the name I used in "outing" him when those FAs are published or described. So, I've often used that instead of his name and so have many others  ;)

So folks have compared our little thread to a campfire.
Personally I think it’s more like an expedition… if we start to dog pile on people we will not succeed in our shared goal.

Everybody contributes what they have and we all share in learning new things, having a little chuckle while doing it is what I’m here for.

Discussing politics severely detracts from the enjoyment.

Later all 

Edit: Brad you know the man better than I do. He came to MP with a different “name” … It didn’t take me very long to figure things out.

Guyman 

Brad says: 

EDIT: and in my defense, he's done a huge amount of climbing up here on Sonora Pass and has always been called by the name I used in "outing" him when those FAs are published or described. So, I've often used that instead of his name and so have many others  ;)

Understand 100%.
On MP I’m surprised people use fake names.
I think the primary goal of MP is listing Routs.
I have never seen a FA put up by:
Apogee and Murf Dec 15, 1987 5.2 A0 ….

That ain’t me, babe…

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

How about a reset? Part 1

I was sitting on a slope of a cold, shaded alpine ledge, shivering in broad daylight. I'd just led a good pitch below. Above, a looming bombay led to a very physical off-width exit and at 11,000 feet elevation, it was puke-hard. I sat there shivering, miserable even though it was 1 fucking PM. Given this wall faces northeast, we wouldn't be seeing the sun for the duration. I was cold, so fucking cold, and I was scared, even more scared than I was cold.

This was our 2nd attempt to complete a new route on a high alpine rock wall. I'd followed the pitch I just led, on the previous attempt. And I rassled with the god awful chimney cum off-width-cum face above. And I pulled on gear doing it, A0 but at least it went. My buddy, who was now following the pitch I just led, would be taking the chimney. Hell I was daunted at the prospect of following it, the exit was that hard.

I was just miserable. As I went through the practiced motions of safeguarding my partner's ascent, I was naked and exposed to my own emotions. I was out of my depth. I was out of my mind. This thing was bigger than me. This thing was out of my league. I didn't belong here and I hated feeling this way. I hated it. I hated that I hated it.

"NO!" I screamed inside my mind. "I don't have to do this to myself!"

I could go down anytime, I reasoned. While it would be painful, my partner would get over it if I just threw in the towel and said I quit, I'm going down. It’s not pleasant admitting, but the very fact he would be so kind and supportive if I did bail, made it all the more, raw and real.
I had the power to quit. I had the power to never put myself in this kind of situation again. I could stick to top ropes and sunny sport climbs, with pleasant weather and friendly people sharing, well, everything.
Never mind.

So my partner joins me on the ledge. This dude is electric and I'm not kidding. It’s like his soul is wired to the backbone circuitry of the universe and he's taking a direct feed from god, or physics, or something. Where I'm suffering and miserable, he's beaming and laughing out loud, like Tom Bombadil.

"Hey there Cherokee, that was a fine lead, a FINE LEAD! Hey merry a derry dole, hand me that bowl.” Some of the south farthings finest smoke soon softened that cold, miserable perch. Laughing all the while, he peers up at the gruesome chasm, above, chuckling. He says,

"You know, I was thinking, instead of this chimney, I check out the outside edge of the corner out left there. I think there's a crack there, it looked good from above, last time." I was good with it. Out he went. Just as he turned the outside of the dihedral, he looked back at me, not one frickin piece of pro between us, and I saw this gleam in his eye, this crazy eye, this goat eye.

"Dude, you're gonna love it!" And he was gone, out of my view, I heard occasional grunts and gasps, he was a vocal climber. Occasionally a rock or a dirt clod would fly down out of space. I was reading the belayer's rope movements as if it were braille; where he paused, where he ran for the border. It took him a long time, but he sent it and he never weighted the rope.
That whole time I was really wallowing in self-pity and frankly, self-loathing. I hated feeling this way and so pretended to myself that what I really hated was alpine big wall climbing and type 2 fun in general. I thought, ‘You know, you don’t have to do this to yourself, right?’ Over and over and over, circling the drain. My mojo had gone down, so too had my courage. All I had left was dogged determination, and fear of saying “quit” out loud. We’d invested so much just to get to this place.

I was so cold. The sun was just out there, just out of reach. I could see our tent in the valley, it sure looked warm down there. While I waited for my partner to establish his anchor at the top of the pitch, I could see the sun was just missing my perch. I found if I leaned out from my anchor and stuck my arm out into space as far as possible, I could just get my hand and wrist into the sunlight, and no more.

“Well at least I’ll have a warm hand, when I freeze to death.” I said out loud to no one. It was not comforting, not at all. In fact it just made me feel all the colder, all stretched out like that. I went back to my self-pity fest.

When I finally heard I was on-belay, I cleaned the last piece and I was glad to finally be moving again. I stepped around the outside corner, looking up. Mother of god, it froze my heart. A singular crack split a 100 foot tall, slightly overhanging pillar. It appeared slightly past vertical the whole way. And while this turned out to be an illusion, I knew I was in for a fight. And the exposure here was almost a physical force. Back there in the wings of the dihedral and chimney, I was sheltered from the abyss. But out here, it was like I’d stepped over the void and it was a straight shot to the talus, about 500 feet below. No place to tarry!

The crack had that alpine irregularity to it but that said, it is mostly fingers, some hands and one fist, where my smaller handed partner had to do a hand stack. Anyway, there were few rest spots, a couple of tough bulges and all this at 11,000 feet. I was breathing like a beached whale when I finally made the belay. I felt broken. I felt sick. I did not belong here.

My partner was all laughter and optimism. He slapped me on the back and excitedly recounted his lead. He’d struggled with the same bits I had, of course. But he did them on-sight and on the lead and what a lead it was! I would have pulled on gear for sure, had I tried to lead it. I was sorely tempted to, just following, but wanted to preserve the redpoint.

Somehow I found the will to go on. We did not complete the climb that day though. We did push the route 3 more pitches before we bailed for time. There were still 3-4 pitches to go, as best we could tell. We’d stopped at the base of the headwall, with another splitter awaiting us, this one all hands and fists.

End of Part 1

Great story