Parking ticket at the graveyard (CCC)

Hi everyone,

I was climbing in the Graveyard and got a parking ticket. The main parking lot at cats vs dogs was full, so I parked on the side of the road next to a few other cars. The parking spot is completely detached from the road and I'm not even touching the side of the lane. See picture below. Has this happened to anyone else? I've seen cars parked there all the time and parked myself numerous times, and never got a $165 fine for it.... Be careful out there.

The sheriff’s office in clear creek county loves pulling crap like this, and it’s not even limited to the canyon. The grays and Torreys road/trailhead is a cash cow for that county.

The issue seems to be that you’re not parked facing the same way as traffic. My spouse once got a ticket for that in almost the same place. 

Only in America. Where you can run for president despite being a convicted felon and an insurrectionist, but god help us all if your car isn’t facing the correct way when you park. 

I seem to remember a no-parking sign somewhere around where that picture was taken from, maybe last year. If I remember correctly the sign was not easy to spot (maybe missing or fallen?) Haven't been back in a while though. 

I believe Greg Hand posted about the same issue here within the last week or so.

They started cracking down up at Mills Creek in Dumont last year as well.

Ben B wrote:

The sheriff’s office in clear creek county loves pulling crap like this, and it’s not even limited to the canyon. The grays and Torreys road/trailhead is a cash cow for that county.

The issue seems to be that you’re not parked facing the same way as traffic. My spouse once got a ticket for that in almost the same place. 

Only in America. Where you can run for president despite being a convicted felon and an insurrectionist, but god help us all if your car isn’t facing the correct way when you park. 

It isn't just because they're parked the wrong direction, unfortunately. The entire shoulder on that (south) side, from the entrance of the parking lot up to the No Parking sign to the west, is off limits and often ticketed. I was there one day when they were writing the tickets and they explained that people think it's ok and get away with it often because the area is only patrolled once a day, at varying times. So if you park there after they came through, odds are you're not going to ever know. 

If you want to park on that side, you have to park further to the west. You probably wants to do that anyway. The cliff in your photo regularly sheds rock. I was up there a few weeks ago and somebody parked where you did and had both a ticket and a smashed windshield from a fallen rock.

They should sign it better, but there is a no parking sign kind of where you’re standing to take the picture.

There are also two pullouts on the westbound side further west that often have space to park.

Unless someone smoked the no-parking sign in the last week or two, there’s a comically hard-to-miss “no parking” sign with arrows pointing in both directions from the sign exactly just out of the picture. I have no idea about these comments saying it’s hard to spot. I’ve seen dozens of people park right under it and then be surprised when I tell them they’ll get ticketed if they stay there.

If you park upstream of the big street light, just a couple dozen feet upstream of the sign, you won’t get a ticket. Or just park on the other side of the road. Theres a huge pullout 150ft upstream, making your 4 minute approach a 5 minute approach instead

Edit: Lamp post to lamp post no parking, the car shown is parked legally

One time I was parked in the canyon directly under the no parking sign, drinking wine and eating Girl Scout cookies with someone, standing just a few feet from my car. A cop slowed, rolled down their window and kindly suggested we park somewhere else so that my car wouldn’t be victim of rockfall. We said thanks and raised our glasses to him as he left. I think they were thin mints.

Anyway, hope that was helpful. 

There was a no-parking sign indeed, but very far away and it was vandalized so that it looked like it only concerned the other direction when you drive past it. I need to walk back to it and check to realize it’s for both directions. That’s also where the side curb narrows so it naively looks like it makes sense that it’s one directional. Also, the curbside is so large and so detached from the street that parking there causes no problems at all.

Ben B wrote:

The issue seems to be that you’re not parked facing the same way as traffic. My spouse once got a ticket for that in almost the same place. 

Only in America. Where you can run for president despite being a convicted felon and an insurrectionist, but god help us all if your car isn’t facing the correct way when you park. 

Jayparking is a real thing. While it can seem frivolous, in crowded streets it can mean you are potentially pulling out of your parking spot into oncoming traffic. If you don't have a passenger you might not even be able to see the incoming lane.

I just posted this in a different thread:

I was climbing last Friday at Creekside (doing Playin' Hooky) and got an $87.50 ticket. We parked on the south side, on the road because the tiny lot was full even on a Friday. I just called the Clear Creek Cunty Sheriff's Office and they said the parking lot is the only legal parking there. She said that one car had impeded an emergency vehicle and now they're enforcing all the time. Also, she said it's too crowded there and the ticketing is also meant to manage number of climbers in the area. The tickets are more severe $300-$500 if your wheels are touching pavement. Anyone else got beta on the situation?

Is anyone good at reading bylaws or annotating where it is legal to park other than the parking lot? 

If the parking lot is the true only legal place to park in that area, that will be a huge bummer because that parking area services a huge amount of crags. 

https://www.clearcreekcounty.us/DocumentCenter/View/11034/Ordinance-14-Final-and-Recorded

Parking is illegal on all rights-of-way in the county.

I would not recommend parking there in any case, despite the lines that do. 

There is frequent rockfall on that side of the canyon right on top of that path and it will damage the cars parked there.

Climbing the graveyard in May is unfortunately a ticket-able offense.  

Just spoke to Officer Morgan with the Clear Creek Sheriff’s office. He said allowable parking is **outside** of the street lights by the parking lot (for now) due to legally enforceable line-of-sight-to-sign. Michelle, the person you spoke to was incorrect and he said he was able to achieve alignment with them today and they should be on the same page moving forwards.

Parking still **must** be in line with flow of traffic (I.e. right side of the road), and all of your car must not be on or overhanging the white lines on the road.

He said they’ve spoken with CDOT about changing the signage around there which *may* affect the parking allowances - but that exact timeline isn’t known - so if you get there and the signs contradict what I’m saying right now, obey the signs.

All of this applies for the Mill Creek/Dumont area crags as well - everyone please tighten up over there this weekend was an absolute embarrassment from the parking side of things by climbers.

Tal M wrote:

Just spoke to Officer Morgan with the Clear Creek Sheriff’s office. He said allowable parking is **outside** of the street lights by the parking lot (for now) due to legally enforceable line-of-sight-to-sign. Michelle, the person you spoke to was incorrect and he said he was able to achieve alignment with them today and they should be on the same page moving forwards.

Parking still **must** be in line with flow of traffic (I.e. right side of the road), and all of your car must not be on or overhanging the white lines on the road.

He said they’ve spoken with CDOT about changing the signage around there which *may* affect the parking allowances - but that exact timeline isn’t known - so if you get there and the signs contradict what I’m saying right now, obey the signs.

All of this applies for the Mill Creek/Dumont area crags as well - everyone please tighten up over there this weekend was an absolute embarrassment from the parking side of things by climbers.

Hey Tal,

it’s not clear to me when you say between the lights. From these pictures, would you say my car was legal (expect facing the wrong side)? How did you speak to the officer? When I called the number on the ticket I was told the only way to contest the fine was to appear in court in Georgetown.

Enrico, did you see my photo up thread? I've annotated it here (if you're parked in the "x", you're parked illegally) to be even more obvious, but in person this is pretty straightforward. Additionally, I know that you're no more than 20ft from the "no parking" sign per that image - saying it's "very far away" is incredibly disingenous. Additionally, you're parked against the flow of traffic, which is illegal in just about every part of America. I would say you have about a 1% chance of successfully contesting that ticket, with that 1% chance situation being only if the judge decides that you're guilty and throws it out anyways.

I recognize that you're upset about this ticket, especially because I'm sure you've seen other cars parked here without getting a ticket, but at some level you need to have some accountability and own that the ticket was deserved, regardless of whether or not you recognized you were parking illegally (in multiple ways) in the moment or not. Anything else serves to degrade the relationship between climbers and LEOs and land managers, which, when done enough, can jeopardize access for climbers in the future.

To be clear- if we can’t face the right way or stay off the highway we will see our access restricted. The above is Mill Creek. Blocking more than half the road. C’mon people. This isn’t Trump’s fault. Clearly, global warming is at fault.