New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Jeff Gillespiewrote:

Ok.. so the local ATL club is having a Deep Water Solo trip.. Any tips or advice..   really around shoes.. Obviously leave the "send" shoes at home..   but how do shoes perform after being dunked.  Will this end up destroying your shoes?

Advice?? 

I’ve done a fair bit at the Beckett Quarry. At least on granite, the rubber performs surprisingly well when wet.  I would bring a comfy pair, not your performance ones.  We used a surfboard to start off so our feet started wet but no big deal.  We would chalk up at the start and leave the bag in a waterproof container.

I am jealous.  I was just last night trying to talk Paula into going to Mallorca so I could do some DWS there.  She was not biting. 

Jeff Gillespiewrote:

Ok.. so the local ATL club is having a Deep Water Solo trip.. Any tips or advice..   really around shoes.. Obviously leave the "send" shoes at home..   but how do shoes perform after being dunked.  Will this end up destroying your shoes?

Shoes are fine after being dunked, with two provisos: dry them fairly quickly but not too quickly; rinse them thoroughly before drying if you've fallen into salt water. Bring several pairs of shoes and something disposable to put chalk in. Liquid chalk can be a good alternative to powder if the routes are short. Thoroughly scope the exit from the water beforehand. Thoroughly scope the possible splash-down zones for reefs and so forth. Disposable contacts are worth considering if, like me, you can't see footholds without some help. Ideally have someone on a SUP or inflatable dingy to rescue anyone that lands badly and has the wind knocked out of them or worse.

The Vulgarians and Stonemasters, or 1980s Brit. dole climbers for that matter, have been celebrated ad nauseam. There are plenty of other scenes, including contemporary ones, that were equally mad but didn't have a John Long to lead the mythologising.  

As for the 1960s, another mythologised time and place, my mum points out she was far too busy bringing up us kids to indulge in any of that hippy nonsense. I imagine it was the same for 99.9% of people even in Swinging London or flowery San Francisco. 

I have always heard that the ratings at the Gunks were stiff but being a westerner I have never climbed there to verify that.

In the stout vs. soft ratings let’s not overlook Arizona for notoriously stout ratings. Maybe not so much newer areas that have been developed since the 90’s but go climb some Granite mt.or Paradise Forks 10’s and you might just get a spanking.

Buck Rogerswrote:

Alan:  Which Stonemasters went on to achieve what Rich was speaking about with his "many of the Vulgarians ended up as part of the new establishment, with advanced degrees and law, architecture, medical, and technology professions---a very different trajectory than the Stonemasters had."?

Honestly curious as I did not know that any of them did that.

I know that John Long became a successful writer and others had professional careers in climbing related things (Hill, Bachar, Kauk, etc.) but not in the realm that Rich was referring to, to my very limited knowledge.

And what a great IG site, Lori!  I just started following this "young punk" and will live vicariously through him until my Army contract is finally up in 784 days!!!

;)

What formation is he on in that photo?  I don't recognize it!

Buck, There are various types of professional careers, so I wasn't limiting my comment to academia, etc. Another issue, as Hillbilly indicates, is defining who was a 'true' Stonemaster ( or Vulgarian, for that matter)---was it just the original SoCal 'Valhalla' core group or the wider circle that most contemporaries considered to be Stonemasters? In his book, Rick Accomazzo, one of the 'originals'; seems to eventually have considered the wider group to be under the 'Stonemaster umbrella'. Of the original three, as you noted John Long is a successful writer and also involved in various Hollywood projects, and as Wendy mentioned, Rick is an attorney, as is Randy Vogel ( frequently posts on here) another of the Southern Californians. ( The third 'original'  --Richard Harrison, sadly passed away a number of years ago.) You say that several went into 'climbing related careers'---some of which were in the clothing business. In that regard they were following in the footsteps of members of the previous Yosemite generation---and there is no doubt that folks such as Chouinard, Tompkins, and Robbins had very successful 'professional careers' in that business.

As for my reference to Barber v the Stonemasters, the account Bob quoted above is a very 'sanitized' version of what occurred at the time, as was Bacher's attitude as expressed in that article. In '75 there were shouting exchanges, near fisticuffs, and even threats of being shot by 'a high-powered rifle'---all over allegations of 'stolen' first ascents ( before there was even a concept of potential new routes as 'projects')!!!!

M Mwrote:

They also say if you can climb 5.9 at the Gunks you are doing 10s anywhere else! I will admit that many East coasters have trouble on pure cracks out west but personally for me east coast ratings really humbled me when I moved here. 

It’s probably worth noting that as we age, strenuous climbs feel much harder than they actually are.

On another note, Jenson finally wakes up a week after I noted this: https://www.lightreading.com/ai-machine-learning/nvidia-calls-for-easing-of-china-ai-curbs-as-huawei-gains-ground

EDIT: Two things both Trump and I agree, Jerome Powell needs to lower interest rates immediately. We can’t wait for recessionary triggers to act. Even China is releasing funds this month.

Secondly, https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/05/07/trump-chips-exports-nvidia.html..

Hopefully, end all Biden era sanctions and such.

Yes we were all amazed by “Hot Henry”… but when he abandoned his very injured partner up on a mountain he lost all respect from the “community”.

It’s quite amazing how a “hero” can tumble off of the pedestal.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Yes we were all amazed by “Hot Henry”… but when he abandoned his very injured partner up on a mountain he lost all respect from the “community”.

It’s quite amazing how a “hero” can tumble off of the pedestal.

I somehow had not heard this about Henry Barber, but I'm pretty sure I remember a photo of Rob Taylor in Kenya in Chouinard's "Climbing Ice".

There's an interesting ST thread that discusses the accident:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=450677&tn=100

Guy Keeseewrote:

Yes we were all amazed by “Hot Henry”… but when he abandoned his very injured partner up on a mountain he lost all respect from the “community”.

It’s quite amazing how a “hero” can tumble off of the pedestal.

Not at all accurate Guy. While it is not a 'pleasant' story, with ' fault' in both sides ( both on the climb and the aftermath), Henry did not "abandon his very injured partner up on a mountain". He was able to get them both down from high on the very remote mountain through technical glacial terrain and off the mountain to a place of relative safety ( no place was truly safe in that part of Africa), then leaving said partner with most of the survival gear, he traveled solo through unfamiliar jungle/savannah terrain to initiate a rescue, which was successfully achieved. Yes, he didn't remain in Africa and stay with Rob after the rescue was completed and there is considerable debate concerning the circumstances that led up to the accident ( and Taylor's account in The Breach is very self-serving), but that is not close to 'abandoning him on the mountain'.

duncan...wrote:

As for the 1960s, another mythologised time and place, my mum points out she was far too busy bringing up us kids to indulge in any of that hippy nonsense. I imagine it was the same for 99.9% of people even in Swinging London or flowery San Francisco. 

It was that way for everybody that I knew. I “helped out” at my family’s business as a child as well as got an “allowance”  proportional to the number of hours I “helped out”   

Alan Rubinwrote:

Not at all accurate Guy. While it is not a 'pleasant' story, with ' fault' in both sides ( both on the climb and the aftermath), Henry did not "abandon his very injured partner up on a mountain". He was able to get them both down from high on the very remote mountain through technical glacial terrain and off the mountain to a place of relative safety ( no place was truly safe in that part of Africa), then leaving said partner with most of the survival gear, he traveled solo through unfamiliar jungle/savannah terrain to initiate a rescue, which was successfully achieved. Yes, he didn't remain in Africa and stay with Rob after the rescue was completed and there is considerable debate concerning the circumstances that led up to the accident ( and Taylor's account in The Breach is very self-serving), but that is not close to 'abandoning him on the mountain'.

I met Rob Taylor (as he said in his accent: “Rob Tyler”) when we were ice climbing in the 70’s, staying at Harvard Cabin on Mount Washington prior to his trip to the Breach Wall.   I was maybe 16 or 17 and a newbie and he was a great, friendly guy.  He talked about his upcoming trip and said to me that it was going to be really hard but that:
“ Henry is so  bloody headstrong that we will probably get up it.”

I have also met Henry more than once.  He was a great climber, but I will not opine further.

I am more inclined to believe Rob based upon my personal experience.  However, Rob was clearly not abandoned on the mountain, other than maybe emotionally.

Ward Smithwrote:

I’ve done a fair bit at the Beckett Quarry. At least on granite, the rubber performs surprisingly well when wet.  I would bring a comfy pair, not your performance ones.  We used a surfboard to start off so our feet started wet but no big deal.  We would chalk up at the start and leave the bag in a waterproof container.

I am jealous.  I was just last night trying to talk Paula into going to Mallorca so I could do some DWS there.  She was not biting. 

I have a funny story. Paula was pregnant and I was Deep Water Soloing at the Beckett Quarry at age 50.  We were all trying this new climb with an all points off dyno maybe 25 feet up.  I gave the dyno a half hearted attempt and fell into the water with no problem.  “I need to go all muerte like Chris Sharma (to the death)” I thought.  So I went up all muerte and missed the hold and fell down on my back, almost hitting the slab, and had to be rescued by my friend Steve in the kayak.

Anyway I hurt my back, so I kept saying to Paula’s belly “Hold”  “Hold “ every day.

Anyway, Ella was 15 days late.  Paula still gives me crap about it.  As she should.

Those kids!  I was checking out the MP reviews on the route "Black Hills Gold"... Russ Walling gave it this review:  "Good route, well protected on steeper than it looks rock. Not a full 3 stars, but the best thing going in the area. A solid 2.618 stars."  

Why won't Russ come back?  I miss his sarcasm and ridicule more than I can say.  

Has anyone watched The Last of Us?  I was very wary of trying Cordyceps, a powerful fungus that grows off of the body of a caterpillar in the Himalayas. Related species of cordyceps take over the brains of grasshoppers, ants and other insects and directs them to march up trees, etc.  It doesn't seem right.  Jan mentioned that there was a series about this very thing, cordyceps evolving  to take over the brains of humans.  I couldn't watch it at the time, we're watching it now.  

  

Lori Milaswrote:

Those kids!  I was checking out the MP reviews on the route "Black Hills Gold"... Russ Walling gave it this review:  "Good route, well protected on steeper than it looks rock. Not a full 3 stars, but the best thing going in the area. A solid 2.618 stars."  

Why won't Russ come back?  I miss his sarcasm and ridicule more than I can say.  

Has anyone watched The Last of Us?  I was very wary of trying Cordyceps, a powerful fungus that grows off of the body of a caterpillar in the Himalayas. Related species of cordyceps take over the brains of grasshoppers, ants and other insects and directs them to march up trees, etc.  It doesn't seem right.  Jan mentioned that there was a series about this very thing, cordyceps evolving  to take over the brains of humans.  I couldn't watch it at the time, we're watching it now.  

  

These interesting phenomena (and others) are discussed quite well in this book:  Parasite Rex

Tim Schafstallwrote:

These interesting phenomena (and others) are discussed quite well in this book:  Parasite Rex

Oh god, Tim!  Really?  This subject has kept me up a few nights. Do I really need to read this book?    

Congrats on your ascent Lori.  But The Last of Us - just another stupid zombie film.  No thanks.

M Mwrote:

They also say if you can climb 5.9 at the Gunks you are doing 10s anywhere else! I will admit that many East coasters have trouble on pure cracks out west but personally for me east coast ratings really humbled me when I moved here. 

I concur about the Gunks. I’ve climbed around a hundred routes there- you definitely need your ”A game“ to lead a lot of those old 5.9 and 5.10 classics, and have your pro skills down pat.

Bob Gaineswrote:

I concur about the Gunks. I’ve climbed around a hundred routes there- you definitely need your ”A game“ to lead a lot of those old 5.9 and 5.10 classics, and have your pro skills down pat.

We've had a few comments to the effect that "if you can climb 5.9 at X, you can climb it anywhere."  There are some climbers blessed with natural aptitude for everything that they really can go anywhere and climb at the same grade.  But I think they are a pretty small minority.  For example, you will hardly learn anything about offwidth climbing in the Gunks, and most Gunks climbers will have to drop down a grade or two or three when they encounter real crack climbing for the first time.  I was climbing 5.10+ 5.11- in the Gunks when I went to Yosemite for the first time and I could barely get off the ground on the Generator Crack and failed to lead a slew of 5.10's I've conveniently forgotten.  Leading competence pretty much maxed out at 5.9 for any kind of technical crack climbing. More featured rock, like for example the Salathe-Steck, was more doable. Even there, I did the climb in two consecutive years (one of my favorite climbs anywhere) and the second time, with a bit more technique, we cut our original time in half.

On the other side of the coin, you can often look up at a crack pitch and practically sort your rack in the order you'll be placing gear. In the Gunks, you look up and you often have no idea what kind of pro, if any, the rock will take, and you may have to place what you can from very fatiguing positions. I think the mindset is different and is bound to affect one's perception of the difficulty, at least if you are still playing the onsight ground-up game.

My first time out west we had a gunk's rack heavy on the micro stoppers. One #3 friend and a#10 hex. We had a really long day on a 5.10 crack climb. The first pitch was fingers and suckered us in. Then it got burly. I pretty much resigned myself to dying that day and I was just the belayer.P2  belay drilled angles with death triangle. Pitons loose in worn out holes.... 

 P3 Charlie sent down a loop of rope for my #10 hex that was the good half of the belay. I sent the hex up and wedged my knee in the crack to supplement the single 1/4" buttonhead with leeper hanger that was the belay while Charlie leapfrogged the hex and our single #3 friend untill they both tipped out 70ft above me 300ft off the deck...  it was a Loong day.

rgoldwrote:

We've had a few comments to the effect that "if you can climb 5.9 at X, you can climb it anywhere."  There a some climbers blessed with natural aptitude for everything that they really can go anywhere and climb at the same grade.  But I think they are a pretty small minority.  For example, you will hardly learn anything about offwidth climbing in the Gunks, and most Gunks climbers will have to drop down a grade or two or three when they encounter real crack climbing for the first time.  I was climbing 5.10+ 5.11- in the Gunks when I went to Yosemite for the first time and I could barely get off the ground on the Generator Crack and failed to lead a slew of 5.10's I've conveniently forgotten.  Leading competence pretty much maxed out at 5.9 for any kind of technical crack climbing. More featured rock, like for example the Salathe-Steck, was more doable. Even there, I did the climb in two consecutive years (one of my favorite climbs anywhere) and the second time, with a bit more technique, we cut our original time in half.

On the other side of the coin, you can often look up at a crack pitch and practically sort your rack in the order you'll be placing gear. In the Gunks, you look up and you often have no idea what kind of pro, if any, the rock will take, and you may have to place what you can from very fatiguing positions. I think the mindset is different and is bound to affect one's perception of the difficulty, at least if you are still playing the onsight ground-up game.

I started climbing in North Carolina where there isn't much crack climbing and they felt super sandbagged the first time I went to Yosemite. I remember a 20 foot section of 5.9 offwidth that left me with a bloody knee and a full body pump. Grades at the Gunks on the other hand always felt reasonable, probably because my home crag of Moores Wall is steep mostly traditionally protected climbing on quartzite.

The Gunks does strike me as a great place for senior climbers given the short approaches and tons of high quality moderates. 

COR is the best senior climbing venue I have encountered. lots of bathrooms, flat easy approaches and forgiving grades.  Gunks is right up there with the lots of easy climbs dept and easy approach. haven't been there in decades so dont know if they have upgraded in the bathroom dept.  We got rained out of Seneca on Tuesday. We were roped up and Isa was about 20ft up Exstacy when the sky opened up. We pulled the plug and headed north. Perhaps some folks got some climbing in that day but we were done with waiting. Not as much climbing on this trip as we would have liked but we did get to climb the Stairmaster 5 times and had 5 actual climbing days.  Stopped at Antietam  that afternoon. A real eye opener in todays current political situation.  23 thousand people were killed or wounded in 12 hours on this spot 166 years ago. 

Isa decided that Birdsboro quarry was on our way home. It was steep and slippery.

and added quite a bit of city driving to our trip but it was a fun outing. 

Its Cold grey and wet here in the Northeast Kingdom now.