Do you climb in central Colorado? - Economic Impact Study

I've been pretty open about my feelings about the PPCA so I'll continue them here. Ryan, yeah I filled out the survey before I ever commented.

Corey (above) reached out to me privately as well. We had a chat today, and just now coming back to this thread it seems most of what we talked about was what he mentioned above. I was very honest with him - I really appreciate the work it seems they've done recently and they align with my values but if he hadn't personally called me to tell me about them, I never would have known. I expressed how important I think it is that the PPCA becomes more visible with the ways in which they contribute and expressed my frustration with past experiences with trying to get involved with the PPCA. I also called out that the whole "We're volunteers, we have full times job thing" doesn't give them a pass, as here I am - a volunteer with a full time job who is actively willing to do more. Corey was super receptive to all of that.

The bottom line for me is this - after chatting with them, the new PPCA board gives a shit - which is generally enough for me, so I'll be working with Corey on ways to get involved. But I recognize that I wouldn't have known that without this conversation based on previous experiences with the organization. So, folks on the board - I'll continue to tell you that you need to be better about communicating how you've been involved and how other people can get involved. I get that it's tempting to say "It's more important to do the work rather than the publicize the work", but since you're reliant on volunteers, I would argue that you are incorrect. The only sustainable way to make sure progress keeps happening is to ensure that passionate people are able to continue getting involved. Give me volunteer event calendars, the budget for the year, active needs, etc.

In the spirit of that - Corey, and the PPCA, I'll post the same question here that I discussed on the call. Let's say I am someone who is passionate about climbing in your footprint. How can I get involved? If I make a financial contribution, what should I expect that to go towards?

corey wager wrote:

J T, 

Sorry for the long post everyone.

I'm not here to argue just maybe shed some clarity on what we have been up to the last two years.  First I'll start with we are a volunteer based unpaid staff who all have full time jobs, family, kids, ect.  There currently are 8 of us one of whish is out for medical/ family issues.  We are all community members that wanted to get involved and help.  No we don't all have legal, conservation, or political backgrounds but to be honest people in this community that do haven't gotten involved.  We are current seeking board members that have these specific skills to help make our efforts more efficient.

All but one of our board joined within the last two years.  Within the two years we have lost a president (Andrew), and 3 other board members due moving, by law turn over, and various issues.  In the two years the majority of our staff has been on the board we pretty much built an LCO.  This means we have redrafted updated and appropriate bylaws, improved and acquired appropriate insurance, and are building framework for efficiency.  To help with this we brought in a strategic planner to help draft a 5 year plan and set up our personal strategic plan.  This is soon to be finalized in our next meeting.  

Other than trying to rebuild and improve this non profit we have participated in putting out the economic impact study to help gather information on our crags for further funding towards these which will help our efforts for maintaining access.  We have completed multiple trail work days in the platte and at shelf.  We have completed multiple rebolts including shelf road, sheeps nose, pikes peak, castlewood canyon, and the south platte.  We have had are are having meetings with Colorado Springs City Parks department on a full rebolt of Red Rock Open Space, updating educational material there, and climbers access trails.  This will be finalized within the month.  We have written multiple grants to help improve funding for continued access and improvements.  We have just written a grant for improving sand gulch camp ground as well.  

We are and were the only LCO to take part in stepping in for Devils Head when Forrest Service wanted to close climbing even though this climbing area is not classically covered by the PPCA.  We did because no one else wanted to.  Specifically we worked with the Access Fund to create a Non Funded Challenge Cost Share Agreement with FS.  This included also setting up a climbing management plan to continue to allow development.  this should be rolling out after the next FS budget.  

We have written and received a grant for and created 3 educational videos about LNT and best practices which help maintain access.  We have maintained and funded multiple wag bag stations.  We have had multiple meetings with Colorado Springs city and are currently assessing alternative chalk impacts on rock and our environment.  We have yearly public forum meetings to discuss what we have been up to and get to hear from the community what they want to see.  We have had multiple individual and group meetings with all parties involved in the pikes peak issue, meetings with the FS, and meetings with the Access Fund.  (would love to hear if you have a idea to help with this issues.)  We have recently had a meeting with BLM to discuss rebuilding the darkside trail at shelf and maintain access.  We are working on getting a NEPA study at shelf to continue to get funds for access and maintenance.  

We have tabled, hosted local events, and tried establish and improve relationships with other non profits within our city such as REMFI, Medicine Wheel, Ect. In regard to help from other more well established LCOs its great to have help to improve from people that have more experience in all aspects of life. Kinda like when you started climbing. The BCC has a paid staff where this is their career to do this work and they have specialized training as well as a >$100,000 yearly income. Kudos to them that's awesome and we aspire to have that some day. Yes rebolting/ trail work can be done by anyone but there isn't a lot of people in our city that have those skills and are actively going out doing it, so it only helps if more people help I.E. us. This also costs money and money also helps access so it is a must for LCOs to fundraise.

To be honest yes more can be done and will be done but you have to start somewhere.  We manage a large chunk of the climbing areas in the state and have one of the smallest staffs.  I personally think in two years with high turn over and a staff that is learning these skills this is a great improvement.  I personally give up personal/ climbing time and family time to do this work the best I can to help my community and maintain climbing for future generations.  I encourage anyone who wants to do something or is even sick of something and wanted to actively be part of the a solution to reach out and we can work together.  Because that's literally the only way things get done.  Anyways anyone please reach out if we can help in any way or you want to get involved in any way.

Adding some line breaks to make Corey's comment a bit more digestable

J T

Continued since mtn park limits daily posts 

My understanding is it was the property owners you mentioned who were unhappy.  I personally haven’t worked on this issue and am trying to get more specific details about who worked on it (prior board.)  There might be more in regards to using that road for parking I.e. safety issue  with merging or a water line access point for the city but I will reach out to the city to get more clarification and see how we can come to the table. I also encourage people to email us when they see an issue arise so we can get involved. Mtn proj is great but it’s hard to get fast accurate knowledge from it.

In regard to Taos questions posted:

-email me at cwager1@gmail.com 

 if your interested in volunteering in any form and I will set up a call to see in what capacity you want to and what skills might help our community.

If you make a donation it goes into our budget. Yearly we discuss how much goes to events, trail building, rebolting, future fundraising merchandise (t shirts),  LCO infrastructure,  ect.  Other areas money helps is building our infrastructure including paying for insurance, paying for our web page, marketing materials, sub contracting out.  Since we are a newer and less developed LCO we are currently working on building our equipment stock. Our goals for the next year is to have a fully stocked fixe lend out program including drill, all puller equipment, and installation tools to let rebolters barrow. Also to fully stock trail building equipment. 

PPCA Pikes Peak Climbers Alliance wrote:

J T

Continued since mtn park limits daily posts 

My understanding is it was the property owners you mentioned who were unhappy.  
I personally haven’t worked on this issue and am trying to get more specific details about who worked on it (prior board.)  There might be more in regards to using that road for parking I.e. safety issue  with merging or a water line access point for the city but I will reach out to the city to get more clarification and see how we can come to the table. I also encourage people to email us when they see an issue arise so we can get involved. Mtn proj is great but it’s hard to get fast accurate knowledge from it.

Appreciate the continued activity on here. Again, the only property owner(s), for all climbing and previous approach trails, is the city of Colorado Springs. It does not make sense to me that they would allow climbing (inherently dangerous) but not allow you walking up a hill for 5 minutes. If that is the case, then it must be something else mentioned like another perceived safety issue. Additionally, the road you are presumably referring to is gated so you can’t actually access the road unless you have the code or it is propped open. I also do not know anyone who has tried to gain access to the boulders via this method, as this method would require the climber to approach via a private easement. The other (more common) previous access point was a large dirt parking lot that is now plastered with “no parking signs”. All land, including the parking and approach via this method was owned by the city of Colorado Springs. There is/was no ownership change going from car to boulders. The only reason this method is/was no longer used is due to the parking lot being closed by the city to use as storage location for road work (gravel, concrete barriers, etc.). It is still somewhat of a mystery as to whether or not you may be dropped off in this parking lot and approach the boulders via the old approach. Presumably it should be fine if the city still allows climbing as the property does not change ownership. However, a definitive answer has not been provided anywhere to my knowledge. Investigating an answer seems like it would be the job of the LCO such as yourself. 

I think reaching out would make a lot of people happy as that is one of the most concentrated high quality boulders within 15 minutes of Colorado Springs (arguably some of the most concentrated high quality boulders in all of the Pikes Peak region). Solving/addressing issues like this are things that climbers will notice, appreciate, and help gain recognition which would lead to more support. Even just clarifying the reasoning why access has become more difficult would go a long ways.

We are currently reaching out the the city on the Ute pass issue and will update the community when we hear back.  As far as a lend out program this is a very well established thing at other LCOs and there will be a vetting process so ensure proper safe work for specific approved routes. 

PPCA Pikes Peak Climbers Alliance wrote:

We are currently reaching out the the city on the Ute pass issue and will update the community when we hear back.  As far as a lend out program this is a very well established thing at other LCOs and there will be a vetting process so ensure proper safe work for specific approved routes. 

It's July and still no update, huh?

Those expectations might be a bit high... movement within government organizations is measured in years, sometimes decades. I run a guide service and it's taken me 6 months to get a meeting with the head ranger and real estate specialist from the Forest Service to just broach the topic of a land swap. I'll be impressed if the Ute Pass thing gets figured out before I die because it's the same issue as it was when I moved here in 2008. Unless lawyers are involved things take forever. 

Personally I think the PPCA is moving in a good direction from several years ago when there was some issues with the board and then the whole thing with bolting on Pikes. The cultural differences of the Pikes Peak region will continue to be challenges but it's a tide that needs to be pushed back against. Our climbing community is much smaller with a lot more contention and issues. Although I reached out to help out and never really heard back I'll make some suggestions from an outsiders perspective in this open forum. 

-access is your primary function and goal. I was at the first meeting when the PPCA started and it was pretty obvious the board composition was going hinder long term goals because of personal aspirations and infighting. There's a lot of areas with actual private property, environmental, administrative issues. Shelf and Turkey are not in danger of losing access (guides are a bellwether, if we're getting commercial permits access isn't an issue). Rampart Rd., Ute Pass, things on Pikes, and other areas of the Platte are much more tenuous. If the city makes decisions without you then leverage the people you advocate for to help make them listen. Getting hundreds of phone calls and calls from reporters really bothers them so use it. 

-stick to the priorities. You're not a guide service so don't try to teach climbing skills. Leave that to gyms and guides. Consolidate around key goals. Advocacy/Access, stewardship (which covers bolting, trail maintenance, and limited education on crag etiquette), communication/fundraising. If you can't nail those core functions then you're standing still. 

-purge the organization of people who are likely or even potentially have conflicts. Colorado Springs has some questionable private-public partnerships. Look at the management of commercial access in Garden of the Gods and how shady that came to be. It gives people a bad taste and a reason to not engage so avoid even the hint of impropriety. People with commercial interests like guides, gear companies, gyms, guide services (like me) have a view of climbing with money colored glasses and all of our decisions are tainted by it. Make sure none of us are in decision making positions and keep us at arms length in the rest of the organizations operations. That said their is a lot of institutional knowledge to draw from and volunteer labor so use it to your advantage. Don't promote us though. We've got money for that ourselves.

-more vetting is necessary. The bolting ethic in Colorado Springs is junky. All this BS about making everything a shit show has got to go. If the person bolting Red Rocks in the beginning was actually experienced and a real climber they would of used glue in bolts. People rebolting routes would transition to lower offs (like everywhere else has been for the last decade). This isn't Patagonia or some hard core spot. There's a balance between grid bolting and poorly placed garbage that makes no sense. If we can't even handle it in town how are we expected to export it to the rest of the region.

I'll step off my soap box but there are heaps of people ready to help but no info on the needs, priorities, or actions happening. Consolidate and refocus on the important stuff. 

jmeizis wrote:

Those expectations might be a bit high... movement within government organizations is measured in years, sometimes decades. I run a guide service and it's taken me 6 months to get a meeting with the head ranger and real estate specialist from the Forest Service to just broach the topic of a land swap. I'll be impressed if the Ute Pass thing gets figured out before I die because it's the same issue as it was when I moved here in 2008. Unless lawyers are involved things take forever. 

The Ute Pass “thing” being referenced is referring to the parking situation, which is a fairly recent development over the last few years. The climbing at Ute Pass hasn’t had too much drama over the last few decades with the exception of people being too loud on the Gusher boulder and causing the home owners adjacent to the city land to complain. At least to my knowledge. Access, by and large, at Ute Pass was pretty drama free for the last couple decades until the “no parking” signs and that parking lot become storage for road construction. I know people who still frequent those boulders without any worry, except for how to get there without being dropped off. Additionally I’ve had authorities tell me I can’t go up that (gated) road to meet up with Barr trail, but can come down from Barr trail and be on the road, no problem. Everything hindering access around Ute Pass, in my experience, has been just getting to the climbs. I have not, or heard, any issues from anyone once they are at the climbs. 

Yo PPCA peeps....still no update?