Wham Ridge on Vestal vs. CMC Route on Moran

TL; DR version: I could really use a good comparison between Wham Ridge on Vestal Peak in CO and the CMC Route on Mt. Moran in the Tetons from someone who has done both routes.

Longer version: Last summer, my wife and I did Wham Ridge on Vestal Peak in the San Juans with a guide service. I enjoy doing mellower single pitch trad leads, but I appreciate the expertise of guides in the alpine. We felt Wham was a perfect trip for us in terms of difficulty... we are Midwesterners and we do what we can to train for altitude, and Wham was a perfect challenge. We took the narrow-gauge RR to shorten the approach rather than hiking in from Molas Pass. We did a two-night, three day climb. Hike in on day 1, climb on day 2, hike out on day 3.

Our next alpine target is likely the CMC route on Moran. We will also use a guide here. Picking the right climb for us is really important given how much time and effort goes into getting out West and getting our daughter taken care of--we can basically manage one big alpine trip every couple of years. That's why I am asking the collective genius of MP.

On paper, the two routes seem similar in terms of approach elevation and difficulty, the technical nature of climbing, and the overall energy expenditure. We would also make Moran a 3-day climb. We would canoe in and hike up to base camp on day 1, climb on day 2 and return to base camp, and then hike and canoe out on day 3. Moran seems to have more low 5th class climbing and less scrambling than Wham, and it does seem the descent is a little more sustained. It seems fewer people try to do Moran in a day vs. Wham in a day, which makes me think there may be a piece somewhere I am missing that makes Moran significantly tougher.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you can provide! 

Haven't done Vestal, so not your target group, but been on CMC and I would just say that the approach for Moran is obviously more vert and steeper. Do your weighted step-ups to prep, but CMC is awesome in so many ways and I would definitely recommend.

Sam Bedell wrote:

Haven't done Vestal, so not your target group, but been on CMC and I would just say that the approach for Moran is obviously more vert and steeper. Do your weighted step-ups to prep, but CMC is awesome in so many ways and I would definitely recommend.

And coming down is looooong!

So it looks like it's a rare combo to have done both of these, but the consensus of those who have done the CMC face on Moran is:

1. It's a great route

2. Don't underestimate the physicality and length of the ascent and descent needed to do the route

Hey Philip, I have done both as day trips and IMO both are similar in terms of physical exertion. CMC is more adventurous. We soloed wham and simul climbed cmc in 2 pitches. CMC also has the drizzlepuss section that adds some difficulty - both in and out - to the route in addition to the actual face. I’m not sure how you downclimbed vestal but certainly Moran is a more challenging and perhaps objectively dangerous downclimb due to traffic and rockfall. Both are amazing routes that I would go back to often. Shoot me a dm and I’ll share my blog posts on each with you as well as answer any questions you might have. 

The descent, slightly harder scrambling, plus DP elevates CMC a step above Wham. The scrambling is more sustained too since Wham takes a bit to ramp up.

That being said, it isn't a big step. If Wham was reasonable for you, CMC should be a good challenge. 

I've done both routes (and think they are both great) and think the CMC is a bit of a step up from the Wham Ridge, but totally manageable if you felt good on the Wham.  In terms of experiences, the canoe approach and being in a less crowded part of the Tetons is awesome.  Have fun!

I did both routes many years ago, and I have to concur with the group consensus; both routes are well worth doing, and CMC route on Moran is a step up in difficulty. 

Thanks all...super helpful info! 

One weird thing about Wham is the option to shorten the approach with the Durango/Silverton RR, which we did. I think a majority of people choose to do Wham from Molas Pass instead of paying to take the railroad. Does the consensus hold true that even if you take the long way starting at Molas Pass for Wham, the CMC is a solid step up?

I can't see a way that the extra 8 miles and extra 2000 ft of down (then up again) wouldn't have made Wham a tougher objective for me if we did it the long way, meaning the CMC on Moran is likely a couple steps up in overall difficulty compared to the the way I did it. 

For me, the hardest part of alpine moderates is not the technical climbing, but the raw physicality of the approach, descent, and long days on your feet. That would definitely be my low score on my individual skills inventory.

Just for clarity, I wasn't really focused on the approach- I think for the CMC negotiating drizzzlepuss and the descent make it a little more technically challenging.  We did the Wham from Molas pass and hiking wise that is harder than Moran- it's uphill both ways!   

Philip Wire wrote:

Thanks all...super helpful info! 

One weird thing about Wham is the option to shorten the approach with the Durango/Silverton RR, which we did. I think a majority of people choose to do Wham from Molas Pass instead of paying to take the railroad. Does the consensus hold true that even if you take the long way starting at Molas Pass for Wham, the CMC is a solid step up?

I can't see a way that the extra 8 miles and extra 2000 ft of down (then up again) wouldn't have made Wham a tougher objective for me if we did it the long way, meaning the CMC on Moran is likely a couple steps up in overall difficulty compared to the the way I did it. 

For me, the hardest part of alpine moderates is not the technical climbing, but the raw physicality of the approach, descent, and long days on your feet. That would definitely be my low score on my individual skills inventory.

Moran is a shorter approach for sure, but the difference is that Moran is not a maintained trail and goes straight up the brush and rubble strewn creek, and the descent is to reverse the route which adds time. It's not a lot of ground to cover but you just won't be able to get in a rhythm like you can on a maintained trail. 

First time I went to CMC I bushwhacked around the lake, got rained on and bushwhacked back out the other side of the lake. It was hellish. With the canoe approach and a guide I'm sure you'll be fine. Like I said above, some weighted step-ups will probably make that steep hike up from the lake feel easier.