Oklahoma R/X Routes

I recently moved back to OK; I’m an OK native, but learned to climb as an adult. So, I am not familiar with the OK climbing “scene.” I don’t intend to insult or trigger anyone.

I’ve climbed all over the W. United States. I have developed sport and trad routes, ground up and top down, at crags and in an alpine environment (for example: publications.americanalpine…) 

I only provide that background as context for the following assertion:

In every state I’ve climbed in (CO, UT, WA, ID, MT, OR, WY, NV) there are areas you can go to do runout scary routes, and there are areas you can go to do relatively safe routes. 

Most routes in Oklahoma can be easily top roped, but, I personally think it’s really lame, that “safe” lead routes are so far and few between. I’m not looking for a list of the “safe” leads in Oklahoma. I know many of the trad routes can be stitched up. 

Oklahoma has very limited climbing, compared to most other states. I’m not saying, preserving the ethics of the FA party is unimportant, but in a state with such limited climbing, it would be nice to have more “safe” routes.

R/X routes abound at almost every crag and the R/X ratings aren’t exaggerations, as they are in many states. In the upper grades you can find safe routes but 5.10 and below, where (I assume), the FA’s were unlikely to fall, the R/X ratings are everywhere.
I don’t think it’s a huge ask to have more beginner/experienced climbers who aren’t in to knee and ankle replacements—friendly areas.

I know I’m not the first person to raise this issue. I understand there’s a long tradition of OK climbers being proud of their scary routes….

Can we keep some scary routes and also have more “safe” lead routes?

Hey Kelty. Welcome back. That article is kick ass. You took a gym climber up a 2800' FA in Montana. Awesome! Looks like you guys were climbing some long pitches.

I don't really have much to say about bolting ethics in OK. I'm sure you know all about the FA's and honoring their style/era, so I don't have much to add there. The R/X territory is for real in the real good climbing spots in OK. I only get on easy for me stuff in those areas because you have to respect the danger. After a while, that ultimate respect for getting splatted has made me appreciate the climbing I get to do in those areas more. I still wouldn't get on something RX that wasn't easily within my ability. That pretty much goes for anywhere I don't have a lot of experience at.

What part of OK did you end up in? 

The routes in OK definitely require respect. I really like trying to onsight, and that’s basically out of the question here on routes that are at the top of my ability. I’m hoping maybe someday the FA’s might allow minimal retro bolting. It wouldn’t require much to make the safety margins tolerable. I’m in the Norman area, so I get out to the Wichitas and Mt. Baldy whenever I can.

Hey Kelly, I don’t think I’ve met you yet but I’m sure will at some point soon! That’s awesome you’ve been all over and everywhere has its own style for sure. I definitely don’t think there’s just one opinion that everyone has to have on any climbing but the Oklahoma climbing style definitely has tons of different view points. I think that makes it more interesting. For Oklahoma retro bolting is mostly not on the table for granite climbing areas. We almost lost access back in the day and now we gotta do everything in very official ways, with lots of paperwork. That wasn’t really the choice of the climbers in the community. The Wichitas for example is the only federal wildlife refuge that allows climbing, all recreational activities are a secondary use. Volunteers put in a lot of work to replace very recently unsafe fixed equipment through permitting systems. I would say for the climbing in the Wichitas safely onsighting climbs can be done for 90% of routes, including hard routes since there is rarely a runout on the difficult terrain. I think the main difference is that there is not a huge amount of sport climbing here. The climbs that are bolted are rarely sport climbs and definitely have a traditional ethic. It’s been a great place to me to learn to climb because evaluating a climb is key here. Quartz has a different standard in my mind and does require the leader to have a very cool head in run outs across most all grades. I know you didn’t ask for routes, but I would just say that some of the popular areas, desperate dome, lost dome, echo dome, zoo wall, and crab eyes are mostly populated with climbs that can be onsighted safely by the traditional climber for each respective grade.

but in a state with such limited climbing, it would be nice to have more “safe” routes.

Tulsa

In the upper grades you can find safe routes but 5.10 and below, where (I assume), the FA’s were unlikely to fall, the R/X ratings are everywhere.
I don’t think it’s a huge ask to have more beginner/experienced climbers who aren’t in to knee and ankle replacements—friendly areas.

Can we keep some scary routes and also have more “safe” lead routes?

But seriously, I just have to disagree. I learned to climb in the WMWR, and have taught many how to climb there also. My friends and I ran the OU climbing club outings for a while, and never had an issue taking new members out for their first time.

I know you didn’t ask specifics but any response is prompted to provide some in justification. Echo dome is a great place to climb “safe” lead routes. New bolts, tight spacing, low grades and modern anchors create a great venue to bring new climbers. I’ve seen many have lead their first outdoor routes here, and have a great time doing it. Bring a stick clip and you can cheat the whole wall if needed.

Garrett hit the nail on the head in regards for anything new being put in. I mean, it’s the only wildlife refuge in the US to allow climbing. It’s just simply not chuckwalla wall. 

Thanks for the feedback. I know there is a lengthy bureaucratic process to get new bolts put in. 

Normally I’d make a flow chart and point by point essay about the balance of route proprietorship and working toward more equitable access to our limited resources but I have been too tired.

 Instead I’ll just post a silly meme until later when I have more time and energy.

Kelty, glad to have you in OK! Come out to the Gathering next weekend. It will be a good one!

Some practical questions for you, wrt retrobolting.

How will the community create a consensus on which routes should be retrobolted, how heavily they should be retrobolted, and which routes will never be altered?  Supposing you can create a consensus for a small collection of routes, how will that be enforced going forward?  At most places we've seen that have begun the process of retrobolting, retrobolting has a tendency to spread.

I think the only way you could draw clear lines and keep them is if there is a well-organized and dedicated LCO that is working hand in hand with the land manager.  If you were to develop a sport crag where now there is little climbing, would the extra traffic make the land manager reconsider allowing climbing in that spot?

It would be great if every climber had access to every sort of climbing experience, but geography/geology  and our history ....  I'm not saying it can't be done in a equitable way, but to do it well might be more work than you think.  I don't think simply adding a couple of bolts to a couple of routes is a good answer.

Doug Hemken wrote:

Some practical questions for you, wrt retrobolting.

How will the community create a consensus on which routes should be retrobolted, how heavily they should be retrobolted, and which routes will never be altered?  Supposing you can create a consensus for a small collection of routes, how will that be enforced going forward?  At most places we've seen that have begun the process of retrobolting, retrobolting has a tendency to spread.

I think the only way you could draw clear lines and keep them is if there is a well-organized and dedicated LCO that is working hand in hand with the land manager.  If you were to develop a sport crag where now there is little climbing, would the extra traffic make the land manager reconsider allowing climbing in that spot?

It would be great if every climber had access to every sort of climbing experience, but geography/geology  and our history ....  I'm not saying it can't be done in an equitable way, but to do it well might be more work than you think.  I don't think simply adding a couple of bolts to a couple of routes is a good answer.

We do have great working relationships with “Land Mgmt” and have formal policies and guidelines for what constitutes a viable new route (with new fixed hardware that is).

In the WMWR (federal) and QMSP (state) which cover the general access areas of granite climbing in OK the Wichita Mountain Climbers Coalition has a committee of elected volunteers that handles the actual in-person review of new routes or potential hardware, the Fixed Anchor Application process with the person who wants a route or hardware, and then communicates the approval / denial decision to the corresponding state park or Refuge points of contact.

This CMP process works!

It is a little annoying to a first ascentionist and onsighter that one cannot go out like the good old days with a few bolts on your hip and bust out an inspired Ground Up Bolt-On-Lead Onsight but that’s the balanced price we pay for having a climbing management plan that works well.

As far as retrobolting, it has been and will be handled on a case by case basis through a tradition of FA proprietorship where one or both of the FA’s will state their approval of a retrobolt process. In OK most of these guys are still alive and available for comment. 

This has happened recently with routes like Moosebite and Wild And Crazy.  There may be other examples but those are the first to come to mind.

Thanks for the invite Miles, I’ll try to make it out.

Just climbed S wall for the first time last weekend :)

Sounds like you have a decent process, Miles.  I'm sure the reflects decades of relationship building.

Miles Johnson wrote:

We do have great working relationships with “Land Mgmt” 

Hey Miles, 

I was wondering if there are any established lines on the walls in the red circle. 

If that isn’t an established area, is it acceptable to go look for trad lines or is that something that has to be approved?
I tried to send this as a dm put wasn’t able to attach the photo…

Thanks

Absolutely fine.

There are lost lines with a few bolts to the west so I wouldn’t be too surprised if you find an old bolt or two or maybe even pitons on that feature since it’s visible from the roads and shaded a lot.

I’ve always wanted to go explore up there but I’ve only bouldered. Let me know if you want help.

there are some splitters nearby but those wandering adventure lines look plenty tall.

Of course as long as no bolts are placed no application or permit is needed to develop trad lines.

Idk how many trad lines are left to Free as first ascents in the refuge but probably a few hundred.

I just finished one in the Narrows I’ve been wanting to do for a while. The red line is ROMAN FIRE. Pretty advanced moves but the holds are great. Somewhere between 10c bagged and middle 5.11.

Miles Johnson wrote:

Absolutely fine.

There are lost lines with a few bolts to the west so I wouldn’t be too surprised if you find an old bolt or two or maybe even pitons on that feature since it’s visible from the roads and shaded a lot.

I’ve always wanted to go explore up there but I’ve only bouldered. Let me know if you want help.

there are some splitters nearby but those wandering adventure lines look plenty tall.

Of course as long as no bolts are placed no application or permit is needed to develop trad lines.

Idk how many trad lines are left to Free as first ascents in the refuge but probably a few hundred.

I just finished one in the Narrows I’ve been wanting to do for a while. The red line is ROMAN FIRE. Pretty advanced moves but the holds are great. Somewhere between 10c bagged and middle 5.11.

Awesome! Thanks for all the info!

Miles, not 100% sure on the location I circled, but do you know what route this is? I’m having a hard time finding it on MP.

I’m not sure off the top of my head at 11 PM.

That general location may be Temple Of Zandor or something which is a word of mouth name for some climbs in that general area. I never went looking for them since a few other friends were roaming those areas.

The best way to find out is to send it and list it and then someone will come along and tell you they sent it in 1991 lmao

Haha, will do :)