Can you still order gear from Europe without paying tariffs?

I just ordered a sleeping bag ($240) from Poland.

Showed up in 4 days.  No duties charged.  

I also just did a sub 100$ from Poland (rope-master) since it's cheaper than anything in the US, even with $25 shipping tacked on. No other feed or anything seem to be charged... package arriving this Wednesday, which is less than a week total.

Set to me via email from BD.

To Our Black Diamond Community, Since day one, Black Diamond has been built on a foundation of honesty, transparency, and dedication to our community. Today, we want to share an important update regarding upcoming tariff-related price increases—and reaffirm our commitment to deliver uncompromising quality.  Beginning May 5th, prices on most of our products will increase 10–25% due to the recent wave of global tariffs introduced by the Trump Administration. 
These tariffs include a base tariff of 10% on all imports, 25% on steel and aluminum products, and steep surcharges on products from China. These tariffs have dramatically increased the cost of producing our gear - by more than double in some cases. Every outdoor brand operating on a global supply chain is experiencing similar issues. We’ve absorbed as much of this impact as we can, but to continue delivering the high-performance equipment you count on, a price adjustment has become necessary.  This isn’t a decision we’ve taken lightly. We build technical, protective, and often life-saving equipment. 
Our global supply chain is built on long-standing, trusted partnerships, operating 41 factories in 17 countries in a tightly managed network built around safety, reliability, and performance - things we aren’t willing to compromise to chase cheaper suppliers.  We’re navigating an unprecedented and uncertain global economic environment, and like many of you, we’re doing our best to adapt. Our goal is to be transparent, and we’re sharing this now to allow for some period of transition at current price levels. We’ll continue to communicate openly, act responsibly, and stay true to what matters most: designing world-class gear that earns your trust every time you head into the mountains.  
These are the actions we’re taking today. Additional country-specific “reciprocal tariffs” have been paused for now, subject to further trade negotiations. Depending on how these additional tariffs unfold in the coming weeks, further adjustments may unfortunately be necessary. As always, we’ll keep you informed every step of the way.  We’re deeply grateful for your continued support and for being part of the Black Diamond community. See you out there,
Your fellow climbers, skiers, and adventurers at Black Diamond Equipment 

wake and bake wrote:

you cheapos are stealing american climbing biz jobs! 

shoutout outdoorplay.com--based in Hood River, OR, (appears to ship from there too, for the convenience-culture crowd) and still has some pretty good deals

signed,

someone who admittedly ordered Totems from Oliunid in the past

Allen Sanderson wrote: To Our Black Diamond Community, Since day one, Black Diamond has been built on a foundation of honesty, transparency, and dedication to our community. Today, we want to share an important update regarding upcoming tariff-related price increases—and reaffirm our commitment to deliver uncompromising quality.  Beginning May 5th, prices on most of our products will increase 10–25% due to the recent wave of global tariffs introduced by the Trump Administration. 
These tariffs include a base tariff of 10% on all imports, 25% on steel and aluminum products, and steep surcharges on products from China. These tariffs have dramatically increased the cost of producing our gear - by more than double in some cases. Every outdoor brand operating on a global supply chain is experiencing similar issues. We’ve absorbed as much of this impact as we can, but to continue delivering the high-performance equipment you count on, a price adjustment has become necessary.  This isn’t a decision we’ve taken lightly. We build technical, protective, and often life-saving equipment. 
Our global supply chain is built on long-standing, trusted partnerships, operating 41 factories in 17 countries in a tightly managed network built around safety, reliability, and performance - things we aren’t willing to compromise to chase cheaper suppliers.  We’re navigating an unprecedented and uncertain global economic environment, and like many of you, we’re doing our best to adapt. Our goal is to be transparent, and we’re sharing this now to allow for some period of transition at current price levels. We’ll continue to communicate openly, act responsibly, and stay true to what matters most: designing world-class gear that earns your trust every time you head into the mountains.  
These are the actions we’re taking today. Additional country-specific “reciprocal tariffs” have been paused for now, subject to further trade negotiations. Depending on how these additional tariffs unfold in the coming weeks, further adjustments may unfortunately be necessary. As always, we’ll keep you informed every step of the way.  We’re deeply grateful for your continued support and for being part of the Black Diamond community. See you out there,
Your fellow climbers, skiers, and adventurers at Black Diamond Equipment 

DMM manages to make everything in Wales.  

Maybe you folks should consider manufacturing in the US.  

I would (and do) happily pay a premium for US made goods.  

Kai Larson wrote:

DMM manages to make everything in Wales.  

Maybe you folks should consider manufacturing in the US.  

I would (and do) happily pay a premium for US made goods.  

DMM are a manufacturer that has their own climbing brand, the climbing doesn't keep the lights on. Expecting a company that specialises in design and marketing to enter manufacturing is insane. 

that guy named seb wrote:

DMM are a manufacturer that has their own climbing brand, the climbing doesn't keep the lights on. Expecting a company that specialises in design and marketing to enter manufacturing is insane. 

DMM manufactures equipment used by climbers, arborists, and folks doing rope access work.  They have not only managed to keep the lights on, but have slowly grown and expanded over the years.  I have a lot of respect for them as a company, as they have focused on domestic manufacturing rather than making everything in China.  Their quality is second to none.  

Expecting a venture capital run company like Black Diamond to not take the cheapest path to short-term profit is likely insane.  Off-shoring the jobs and building up the manufacturing base in Asia is the standard VC playbook.  

I support outdoor brands that manufacture in the US, like NW Alpine and Voormi.  I buy DMM too because I respect their ethos.  I'd  love to see a US climbing company actually make climbing equiupment here in the US.  Maybe tarrifs will make that option more economically viable.    

Do you think the BD prices bump will happen worldwide or only on the US market ? if it's made in asia and shipped directly to europe, we should not suffer any new taxes ? If that happens here too, they won't be competitive anymore on the european market, we'll stick to petzl/dmm/wc/camp.

Kai Larson wrote:

DMM manufactures equipment used by climbers, arborists, and folks doing rope access work.  They have not only managed to keep the lights on, but have slowly grown and expanded over the years.  I have a lot of respect for them as a company, as they have focused on domestic manufacturing rather than making everything in China.  Their quality is second to none.  

Expecting a venture capital run company like Black Diamond to not take the cheapest path to short-term profit is likely insane.  Off-shoring the jobs and building up the manufacturing base in Asia is the standard VC playbook.  

I support outdoor brands that manufacture in the US, like NW Alpine and Voormi.  I buy DMM too because I respect their ethos.  I'd  love to see a US climbing company actually make climbing equiupment here in the US.  Maybe tarrifs will make that option more economically viable.    

How do you propose BD finances the tens of millions of investment to become a world leader in manufacturing hot forging aluminium, cut and sew apparel, and laminate textile manufacturing? All of this while only being competitive in the US and seeing similar competition from other US brands. Making the market more competitive, smaller, and more expensive to operate in isn't exactly a recipe for success. 

With reciprocal tariffs, it will be difficult to sell US made black diamond equipment to anywhere in the world except the US. When the rest of the world is friendly and in trade agreements with each other, other manufacturers will have the upper hand. 

that guy named seb wrote:

How do you propose BD finances the tens of millions of investment to become a world leader in manufacturing hot forging aluminium, cut and sew apparel, and laminate textile manufacturing? 

They don't need to be a world leader in laminate textile manufacturing.  There are plenty of companies (some US based) that manufacture laminate textiles.  

Apparel manufacuturing is not extremely capital intensive.  There are a number of companies that make clothing here in the US.  It would not require tens of millions of dollars to begin making clothing here in the US.  

As for the climbing hardgoods, you'd have to build the manufacturing infrastructure a piece at a time.  Shift production gradually.  I believe that Grivel still makes some of their hard goods in Italy.  

I worked in a large consumer products company.  It had vertical integration top to bottom.  We controlled every part of the manufacturing process.  Everything made in the USA.  We were the low cost producer and had over 90% market share.  We could create a new product from design to shelf in under 6 months.  The company was incredibly profitable.  The company was sold to a VC firm.  They got rid of our manufacturing capabilities and outsourced production.  It worked out well for them in the short term.  Selling the plants and cutting manufacturing costs made the profits soar for a couple of years.  However, we lost the edge that we'd enjoyed by making things ourselves.  Within a few years, we became the high cost producer, lost a tremendous amount of market share, and more than tripled the time it took to bring new goods to market.    It's a very different industry, but some of the principles are universal.  When you decide to give up making your own products, you cede a great deal of control.  You are subject to a number of "objective hazards" outside of your control, (like tarrifs.)  

This is an interesting podcast featuring Bill Amos, the founder of NW Alpine.  He discusses manufacturing climbing apparel in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=304Fdm0R5Cg

 

Loic Prst wrote:

Do you think the BD prices bump will happen worldwide or only on the US market ? if it's made in asia and shipped directly to europe, we should not suffer any new taxes ? If that happens here too, they won't be competitive anymore on the european market, we'll stick to petzl/dmm/wc/camp.

Products made by as US mfg outside of the US and shipped directly to other countries will face that countries tariffs. However, it is often the case that components are made in multiple counties then assembled (such as vehicles). For instance (hypothetical), the cams for a SLCD could be machined in one country and then assembled in another country. 

Here is a really good NPR article on the complexities some worldwide companies are facing.

When you decide to give up making your own products, you cede a great deal of control.  You are subject to a number of "objective hazards" outside of your control, (like tarrifs.)  

Some great points Kai. You outlined well some so-called hidden costs to outsourced manufacturing and what happened to a company that gave up their own mfg  capacity to third parties. An excellent inside perspective from a singular company helps understand the consequences.  Rubbermaid was for many years the poster child of this phenom.

None of this is a new conversation. It started before covid in the T1 admin, the large topic of re-shoring American mfg capacity. Some industries would be far better positioned to do this than others. Apparel and other sewn goods is not one of them. Sure its comparatively simple stuff, But you have to look at the piece rate, the quoted price to manufacture a given, let's say a hoody (doesn't really matter) and where the raw materials are sourced.

So its not just potentially the garment workers and factory space you'd need, but also some fabric mills of the sort that introduce environmental damage. Yes there are some fabric mills left - but they are few and far between and expensive.

I'm sure all that could be overcome with sufficient resolve. But in the case of the industry as a whole, its very hard for one company to successfully compete with offshore labor, particularly cheap labor rates for relatively simple and tedious jobs like sewing a hoody. There are no robot sewers yet. As simple as sewing seems, they can assemble cars with robotics easier than they can sew a hoody! Soft goods across a range of sizes, are like that. Bottom line is we'd need to build out a massive, very-low-wage work force, earning as close to min wage as possible. And even then, without tariffs, the cost of their labor, expressed as a piece rate, will be 3-5x what's being paid now. If my company (I don't have a company, literary license here) reshores with higher costs but lets say better quality, but none of my competitors do, and they continue to pay tariffs - the tariffs may not be high enough, even at 100%, to even the labor cost, to keep the piece rate competitive.

So if tariffs are the tool to reshore American industry, the tariffs are the only tool available to keep those reshored companies competitive. Restated, if we want a strong, vital, low-paid workforce to do tedious tasks like this? TARIFFS ARE HERE TO STAY. THE COSTS OF THOSE TARIFFS ARE HERE TO STAY. The cost of goods WILL GO UP, is going up and save a severe depression, they are going to stay up, reshored or not.

And you know the biggest risk of all? The next political regime cancels tariffs, reinstitutes global trade, and my company is again exposed to global labor rates, and goes under in 1-year.

ps. the end of de minimis is a good thing imo, in that it will serve to kill fast fashion. Shein has already felt the pinch - dozens upon dozens of idle factories in Shein Village I'm told. Fast fashion is a trend that will die and not a moment too soon.

The flip side is we'll all be buying less crap to throw in the dump, and that alone may well be worth the cost.

I love DMM but I doubt they are able to manufacture their products without sourcing raw materials from abroad. The UK does not produce much aluminum and apparently zero dyneema. 

Just got a box <$300 from EpicTV - no tariffs. 

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

But in the case of the industry as a whole, its very hard for one company to successfully compete with offshore labor, particularly cheap labor rates for relatively simple and tedious jobs like sewing a hoody. 

Los Angeles Apparel is an example I can give against this. I buy my T-shirts and shorts from them, but all their clothes are extremely high quality and they're an ethical company.

Here's a quote from their website:

"Made of 100% USA cotton. Made in Los Angeles, Calif. Our experienced sewers earn up to $25 an hour and no less than $17.28; additionally workers have healthcare benefits for less than $15 per week, a 401k plan, paid sick days, subsidized bus passes and favorable overtime benefits."

I don't think their clothes are drastically more expensive to the point where they're not competitive. A T-shirt is $26 (and mine have lasted me 5+ years), while a hoodie is around $60 (which is absolutely at the upper bound of what's reasonable). My shirts don't turn into dishrags after a year anymore. You get what you pay for.

Biggi El wrote:

With reciprocal tariffs, it will be difficult to sell US made black diamond equipment to anywhere in the world except the US. When the rest of the world is friendly and in trade agreements with each other, other manufacturers will have the upper hand. 

I saw a couple of articles where both vw and Subaru have cancelled or delayed opening new car manufacturing plants in the US for this reason.

EDIT: Nissan/Infinity announced today that they will not manufacture two new cars in the USA.  

Another update - Made a $415 order from EpicTv Thursday and it got delivered yesterday without any issues.

Just received an order of ice screws from Varuste. Smooth sailing the whole way.