Whiteside Mountain

Why are we allowing this climbing area to fall into obscurity by keeping the routes so dangerous. The first pitch of the OR is unnecessarily runout, someone could easily die here, just trying to access the pitches above. Why are we allowing this rock to be so runout when the cruxes remain bolt ladders. 

you can easily start further right for P1, there's even a newer variation for P1 that takes a crack dihedral that is easy to protect, check out Purple Toad Winery.

Because its the price of entry. Its self regulating. If someone cant do the easy runout first pitch, they have no business on the rest of the route. The bolted pitches were originally aid, hence the bolts. Start to the right. 

...It is a little annoying to have so few bolts in one place and an unnecessary amount of bolts elsewhere. I am pretty smitten with Whiteside and sort of love the serious nature of climbing there but I also wish the community would come to a consensus about moving some bolts from the bolt ladders to other places on the route; no new bolts added. When I say this I'm thinking of Traditions in particular since thats the only route I've climbed there. 

You should try bowling. You can have the staff pull up gutter guards when you can’t get the big heavy ball to go where you want it. Seems more up your alley.

HAS anyone ever fallen on that pitch? Genuinely curious. 

I don't think Whitesides is in any danger of falling into obscurity. The routes that get done, get done regularly. 

I've done the OR three times, and led every pitch at different points--i was barely a 5.10*.climber at the time** and didn't have any real issues.

*WNC 5.10

**I am still barely a 5.10 climber

Dylan Valvowrote:

You should try bowling. You can have the staff pull up gutter guards when you can’t get the big heavy ball to go where you want it. Seems more up your alley.

Dylum, WRONG SPORT CHUCKLE HEAD

Golf is the correct answer, you get to strip the earth for nearly a square mile drive in a cart and keep your hands soft and moisturized all day, and you can’t even smoke in the bowling alleys anymore. GOLF, definitely worth a whack

If yer too scared to climb something, go climb something else, perhaps one of the bolt ladders mentioned. Damn all that human metal shit stuck to the side of the rock looks like ass tho. Trad so rad

Do I even want to comment? I’ll do it. As someone who has led the ridiculous runout pitches on Traditions, it does seem a bit insane to see chopped bolts on a 60 ft runout and then be able to touch three bolts at the same time on the crux pitch. On that route in particular (Traditions), if I understand correctly there are even less bolts than during the FA. I love runout climbing, to a point, but it would be cool if more people got to experience the amazing cliff that is Whitesides. I’m not out there retrobolting, just my opinion. 

what if we drilled out a splitter hand crack and got rid of the bolts once and for all. Ya know like those dynamite lines?

Armand La Douceurwrote:

what if we drilled out a splitter hand crack and got rid of the bolts once and for all. Ya know like those dynamite lines?

Let’s do it. I think we could suggest that for Snake dike as well while we’re at it. 

Dylan Valvowrote:

You should try bowling. You can have the staff pull up gutter guards when you can’t get the big heavy ball to go where you want it. Seems more up your alley.

Just looked at your profile. Seems like you put a lot of bolts on spear finger buddy.

I want to ride my  e-bike up this thing one day so i am all for installing winches and guard rails where needed. Maybe we can have the current federal administration make it atv friendly as well.

Make America Gravy Again!

FO FILMwrote:

Just looked at your profile. Seems like you put a lot of bolts on spear finger buddy.

Whats your damn point?  Its a new route FA party that puts in the work (kudos) gets to pick the style/bolting of the route, its always been that way. Are we really going to argue the very basics of climbing ethics?

Contact the FA party and ask if you can rebolt the line the way you see best fit or let us keep roasting you on MP its not a question for the community but rather for the FA

But I guarantee the answer you get is the same as Chris Watford said “self regulation”

And quite frankly if you can’t figure out purple toad bypass stick to the red river gorge

FO FILMwrote:

Just looked at your profile. Seems like you put a lot of bolts on spear finger buddy.

Trying to talk shit to Dylan about his 5.12 R First Ascent is a hilarious (delusional) response. I've never even met the guy but I still know enough about his accomplishments and gnarly aiding in the Southeast that I would've kept quiet ...

I love mountain project. True entertainment. There's some sections on spear finger that could get ya heart racin don't worry ;)

Armand La Douceurwrote:

I love mountain project. True entertainment. There's some sections on spear finger that could get ya heart racin don't worry ;)

Seems like you might not have been all too prepared for the route, as the topo YOU posted for it highlights a 10a R section. Should that really be all that hard if you are climbing a 5.12 route? Maybe the route isn't 5.12?

Andrew Richardsonwrote:

Trying to talk shit to Dylan about his 5.12 R First Ascent is a hilarious (delusional) response. I've never even met the guy but I still know enough about his accomplishments and gnarly aiding in the Southeast that I would've kept quiet ...

I don't mean to degrade the ascent I am just pointing out the double standard. 

There's a lot more that's run-out, than the first pitch.   You're proposing a massive, fundamental change.

FO FILMwrote:

I don't mean to degrade the ascent I am just pointing out the double standard. 

It's not a double standard to bolt your own route while opposing retrobolting. 

it's obvious that the bolting style at Whiteside is critical for keeping the place uncrowded. For example, take two other southern gems that have close bolting that have been ruined by overcrowding:

• The Lowers, Yonah Mountain
• Brick Wall, Currahee Mountain

A true tragedy of the commons. I hope those in favor of close bolting eventually learn why things should stay the way they are..

There are plenty of routes at Whiteside that are safe. The entire Boulder Problem area, Catwalk, and lower left. A good filter start to something as serious as the main wall of Whiteside is a good thing. There are a lot more things to contend with at Whiteside than protection. Loose or poor rock quality, sneaky thunderstorms, rappel groups dropping 800' of static on your head, route finding, tourists throwing stuff, and the length of difficult technical climbing. Look no further than Linville Gorge to see climbers taking on multipitch with a lack of technical knowledge. The wealthy folks that live around Whiteside would not stand for rescues with any regularity before they start complaining to the FS that climbers are irresponsible. Whiteside is not unique with it's ethic. There are many places across the country that climbing moves several grades below the crux may not be protected if there isn't natural gear.

Tragedy of the commons is accurate!