Wonderland & Pinecliffe

Hi MP, 

Would anyone be willing to share information on legal access to the Wonderland crag near Pinecliffe?  The area page suggests that access is legal, but sensitive, although the page hasn't been updated in some time. Please PM me if access details are sensitive.  Thanks!

There appears to be legal access to Wonderland off of hwy 72 from a switchback tucked between, but off of two separate private parcels. From there the approach would be roughly northeast to over the rail tunnel to avoid the tracks then crossing the creek somehow.

Caveat, I have not done this approach, so I cannot personally vouch for it. Might involve bushwhacking and might involve angry locals even though it is all on public land. 

There is no approach to/from the Shaft/Main Pinecliffe area that does not involve crossing private property.

Screenshots here. I had trouble uploading the pics (file too large - didn't want to compress), so feel free to roast my ineptitude.

This is exactly what I looked at as well.  It’s sure to be a long walk and serious elevation loss/gain.   I haven’t found a willing partner yet.  

Thanks for the approach beta.  It appears that the shortest legal approach, from hwy 72, has several challenges.  

I think 97E is closed.  A jeep or dirtbike might be able to connect from a different road, but most of those roads are quite rough.  You avoid the river crossing if you come from the North, but it still looks like a slog.  I have heard there is a tyrolean to cross S Boulder Creek.

After driving past private land and houses along 97e, a gate blocks continuing eastward down the double-track. From there, it’s closed to motorized travel. (You could take an e-bike without anyone noticing.) At the first obvious opportunity, take a right on a trail that crosses the brook and climbs up to the ridge overlooking South Boulder Creek. More than ten years ago, I rode my mountain bike up there and, after looking around, decided that going down to find Wonderland would be too much of an adventure. I think that approaching from the north would be a lot more difficult and time-consuming than from the parking pullout by Hwy 72 (as for the approach to the Scoop), which is mentioned upthread. 

Coal Creek local here, would be down to climb any of this stuff and I know how to get there and am working on beta. Let me know if you wanna climb... 3-330-3933

Drives me slightly nuts that there are now 2 "Wonderland" areas in the Front Range, separated by only 40 miles, as the crow flies... One, the Pinecliffe crag; the other, the South Platte sub-sector East of Bailey and Southwest of Pine.

What's more, I haven't heard a satisfactory "naming origin story" for either area being dubbed 'Wonderland', other than it's an easy-to-think-of name for a wonderfully beautiful place.

Anyone know the specifics of how the Pinecliffe crag got its name? 

If I understand correctly, the Crag was named Wonderland well before the Wonderland area of the South Platte had been much explored or seen any real development other than a few lines here and there.

---

I won't be able to link up for anything for a few months at least, but you can add me to the list of people interested in linking up to explore the Pinecliffe area more. Wondervu Disc Golf Course is right next door and one of the best courses in the state. Would love to spend more time in that area this Autumn.

The Pinecliffe Wonderland was a play on nearby Wondervu, a community that has been on maps for over a century. 

Brent Kelly wrote:

What's more, I haven't heard a satisfactory "naming origin story" for either area being dubbed 'Wonderland', other than it's an easy-to-think-of name for a wonderfully beautiful place.

Do you get satisfactory naming origin stories for most crags you go to? They're often nonsense. 

Per George B, this one has some explanation, but I don't think that makes it more or less "valid" of a name.

mike h wrote:

Do you get satisfactory naming origin stories for most crags you go to? They're often nonsense. 

Per George B, this one has some explanation, but I don't think that makes it more or less "valid" of a name.

fair point 

and honestly, yeah. I think many if not most of the crags in Clear Creek Canyon, Boulder Canyon, Eldo, the Red River Gorge, etc etc, have "fitting" and thoughtfully considered names.

but i suppose by "satisfactory" here I mean "any kind of origin story to the name, even just who, when, where, how, without the why?"

I cant

get no

satisfaction

George's answer makes sense to me and is satisfying enough. Thanks George.

(I guess I'm more-so bitch-moan complaining that the South Platte Wonderland area was given an identical and conflicting name. I understand I'm in the minority, being at all concerned with such matters. I'm just fascinated by the naming of things.)

The Wonderland crag in Pinecliff wasn't really widely known even locally until 5-6 years ago. 10 years ago, one would pretty much never seen another party up there. I didn't see my first stranger there until some time around 2020. 

The new Wonderland was (correct me if I'm wrong) conceived, named, explored etc by user Tal M in the last couple of years. I believe Tal started climbing around 2018/2019, and got started putting up new routes pretty quickly. I'd guess he named the Splatte Wonderland without knowing of the low-key, deep-cut quasi-LocalsOnly crag by the same name, already long in existence, 40 miles North. 

Fwiw the route developer for Pinecliff that I personally spent time with seldom (possibly never?) refered to the area by the name Wonderland. 

I consider Tal a dear friend, and as I understand it, he inherited the Wonderland moniker for the South Platte area, he did not instantiate it. 

I could be wrong. But Tal's not the type to be ignorant of things or generally indifferent. He's also literally a director-level corporate information and database management professional. Cardinality is something I would expect him to appreciate and value.

Looks like the origin of the Wondervu Wonderland crag is that Richard Wright named it that upon submitting it to Mountain Project in 2006. Makes sense that it has become more popular, now that it's on the Mountain Project map and database, even though it's been a local-knowledge crag since the 70s, apparently.

Sounds like you're saying that was his personal label for the entire Pinecliffe area, preferring to choose a play on Wondervu, rather than use the "Pinecliffe" or "Wondervu" town names themselves?

I dig that.

I suppose I'll have to check back with Tal for a reminder on his understanding of the Wonderland SPlatte naming origins.

I'm sure he'll be thrilled I'm making a thing of all this...

Wonderland is a fitting name for the SPlatte area, regardless. It is a wonderland. And a wanderland.

Wanderland! Joshua Tree! The conflation continues!

It truly doesn't objectively matter. 

Oh, what's in a name? 

That which we call a Wonderland by any other name would still stir as much wonder and awe.

For now I suppose it's moreso the lack of historical knowledge amidst nagging curiosity that irks me, less so the shared name for two locales within confusingly close proximity.

To be clear I have no insight into where the name of either region actually originated. Nor do I care much besides curiosity + a general interest in local climbing history. The developer I mentioned up thread actually wasn't R. Wright! He has been more active up there in the last 20 years, think 2000s onwards.we simply called it "Pinecliff", with individual subdivisions at the crag, aka The Fortress, the wave wall (not to be confused with the other Pinecliff crag "the wave"), the watering hole, etc. We just climbed together casually and I can't say we really discussed the naming of things or history much.

I'd love more insight into the Splatte area history. I don't know Tal but much appreciation to him for the development, the good general internet vibes here on the proj, and respect for his overall commitment. He has certainly become the digital spokesperson/cheerleader/developer for that particular crag down there, with what looks like a load of love and work.

I really need to go wander around down there some day. 

Hey Alex, I think until really recently the pinecliffe wonderland was the much more well-known wonderland in CO - but the one in J tree truly takes the cake for getting the claim to the name. But yeah Jay Vonesh gave the splatte one the name in ‘99. Haas calls it out in his Platte guidebook and gives a bit of a background on it, and Jay wrote an essay about it for my guidebook as well. Far be it from me to rename an extremely obscure area because there’s a slightly less obscure area nearby that makes using MountainProject (which documents a very small fraction of the climbing in both areas) as frustrating as it is to use 80% of the time.

Alex if you wanna come explore, shoot me a message. Would be happy to give an either physical or digital tour - there’s a lot to see! We’ll likely be at 300 roped routes there by the end of the year. Not bad for 4 years of work!

Hell yeah. Tal, you're the best. Thanks for the adding that clarifying info.

I just noticed that I misread the description Richard Wright added. If I'm following the breadcrumbs correctly, Richard may have formally assigned the Wonderland name to the Pinecliffe crag when adding it to Mountain Project, but it sounds like the name was a locally-utilized moniker before the 2006 upload; Which, Alex, it sounds like you have some first hand memories of, yeah?

I want to be clear that I'm not actually trying to sincerely whine, bitch, moan, criticize, or stir up arguments. I'm usually aiming for humor and color when I say silly or overblown things in the forums. Or just confused. I'm often confused, these days.

In this case it's both and I couldn't resist my eagerness to piggyback on the thread to address a nagging curiosity. Probably should have just opened my copy of the SPlatte Wonderland guidebook and realized Tal and Jay (and Jason Haas) had made that info readily available in resources more carefully curated and likely to be fully informative than Mountain Project tends to be. Gotta love those well-authored guidebooks!

I feel I have a pretty good handle on it now, and am looking forward to perusing the Haas writeup and Vonesh essay. I'm sated. Apologies if my curiosity came across as too loud or disruptive, but hopefully this thread is a helpful resource for anyone else wondering about the two Front Range "Wonderland" climbing areas.

Edit to add: Welp, I feel like a real nincompoop. Jay Vonesh's essay in Tal's guidebook perfectly explains the naming history of the SPlatte guidebook, and the MP Pinecliffe Wonderland page explains enough to discern the Wondervu-referential local monkier.

Should have done my homework before making so much noise. 

I went to take a peak at the upper tier crag at Wonderland this past Spring and approached via Lazy Z road. It's all public land and fairly straightforward with forest roads you can follow nearly the entire way. From the top of the canyon you can likely drop down to whichever wall you'd like to climb on, leaving packs at the top. This approach is pretty mellow on the vert and only takes about an hour to get to the top of the upper tier. I image this would be easier than coming in from the Scoop pullout on Hwy 72. Haven't done it myself though so can't say for sure. Send me a message and I'd be happy to share my caltopo route.