New Inflatable Portaledge Technology

What??? I don't see that at all. 

The new ledge is drop stitch. The only thing this ledge has in common with the G7 ledge is the fact that there is some air in it. But the air is at wildly different pressures. Also, the difference in weight and dimensions suggests they are quite unique. 

But I am no lawyer either   

here is a link 

https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html

from my pov i fail to see how these guys think they can get around this patent without paying a royalty or facing potential action from the patent owners 

lets see what they come back with -i am sure others apart from me would like to know more on this 

well its not about hating

in my books it is about the climbing community supporting original ideas and patents

i'd like to hear what the folks behind the sup thing have to say 

wake and bakewrote:

well its not about hating

in my books it is about the climbing community supporting original ideas and patents

i'd like to hear what the folks behind the sup thing have to say 

Calm down G7, 

just start shipping orders and you guys are gonna kill the market just fine

wake and bakewrote:

in my books it is about the climbing community supporting original ideas and patents

I recall that most climbing gear is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary. The G7 wouldn't exist if an AL frame portaledge wasn't invented at some point.
The G7 patent mentions "baffles". A. Whole. Lot.
High pressure SUP style items are generally a single air chamber.

Not a lawyer, but we stay at Holiday Inn Express often. 

wake and bakewrote:

well its not about hating

in my books it is about the climbing community supporting original ideas and patents

i'd like to hear what the folks behind the sup thing have to say 

Your books suck

wake and bakewrote:

I love innovation and i am no lawyer.

First of all kudos for using a SUP 

 I could not help thinking "gee i wonder of the dude is stepping on G7's toes for IP

so i took a look and searched these patents which i found on the G7 website

Sure looks to me as if that's the case 

Since the MP community are all about respect -that includes respect for original work 

Can the folks behind this project inform the community if they are paying G7 a royalty or if they have filed a patent application detailing what makes their product unique? 

I'm not here to be judge but i am sure that as climbers, we want to support those that innovate rather than duplicate 

• Registered U.S. Patent No. 11185149
• Granted European Patent No. 3921047
• Approved Taiwan Patent No. 109103560

Who shat in your waffles this morning? 

so they can't deliver?

well nature abhors a vacuum - but i reckon there are enough claims in the filing about the strap system that these dudes would do right to connect -case closed as it none of my biz and my opinions are just that

back to my waffles 

Patent law isn't opinion.

that guy named sebwrote:

Patent law isn't opinion.

All laws are subject to the opinion of those who enforce them. Or the people who own those. 

wake and bakewrote:

so they can't deliver?

well nature abhors a vacuum - but i reckon there are enough claims in the filing about the strap system that these dudes would do right to connect -case closed as it none of my biz and my opinions are just that

back to my waffles 

So maybe stfu?  Just a few posts ago you were speaking for “the” climbing community, now youre pulling the “daw shucks” “i reckon” affect?

wake and bakewrote:

I love innovation and i am no lawyer.

First of all kudos for using a SUP 

 I could not help thinking "gee i wonder of the dude is stepping on G7's toes for IP

so i took a look and searched these patents which i found on the G7 website

Sure looks to me as if that's the case 

Since the MP community are all about respect -that includes respect for original work 

Can the folks behind this project inform the community if they are paying G7 a royalty or if they have filed a patent application detailing what makes their product unique? 

I'm not here to be judge but i am sure that as climbers, we want to support those that innovate rather than duplicate 

• Registered U.S. Patent No. 11185149
• Granted European Patent No. 3921047
• Approved Taiwan Patent No. 109103560

Me thinks you know a little bit too much about some of these things to not know all of the things. 

G7 Pod-Sandwich

Multiledge-Stromboli

They share no construction/material similarities except it does the same thing. The function is not patented, the construction is.

Just wanted to point out that Middendorf made his designs open source to foster innovation, whereas restricting patents on ledges is a bit like having a moat and a fence. Someone “could” have made:

1.5/2/3 person Pod, increasing weight savings.

A mini pod belay seat/standing platform. Like, sub 1lb for a rigid platform is ridiculous. 

Lighter versions of Pod.

These WOULD HAVE BEEN RAD except they don’t care to make them, and their cost from patents/etc would make them stupid expensive comparatively to alternatives. They chose not to use their patent to expand upon the design method to make different iterations, and no one else can either.

It would be a shame if “someone” figured out and released a pattern/kit to DIY a Pod…

High Mountain Gearwrote:

Me thinks you know a little bit too much about some of these things to not know all of the things. 

G7 Pod-Sandwich

Multiledge-Stromboli

They share no construction/material similarities except it does the same thing. The function is not patented, the construction is.

Just wanted to point out that Middendorf made his designs open source to foster innovation, whereas restricting patents on ledges is a bit like having a moat and a fence. Someone “could” have made:

1.5/2/3 person Pod, increasing weight savings.

A mini pod belay seat/standing platform. Like, sub 1lb for a rigid platform is ridiculous. 

Lighter versions of Pod.

These WOULD HAVE BEEN RAD except they don’t care to make them, and their cost from patents/etc would make them stupid expensive comparatively to alternatives. They chose not to use their patent to expand upon the design method to make different iterations, and no one else can either.

It would be a shame if “someone” figured out and released a pattern/kit to DIY a Pod…

The pod wouldn't be hard to make at home,  the pack rafting community have made  easy access to high quality TPU coated lightweight fabrics a reality. The issue people have at home would be getting a solid consistent bond to make it air tight, and probably the biggest hurdle, the suspension. People don't have bartacking machines and they're expensive to buy. 

I think we will see lots of home made air ledges in future with a wide variety of designs, but making super strong sew free connections will be a considerable design challenge. 

Home solutions will be heavier than commercial versions as we don't have access to everything, the internal baffles of the pod is a low stretch TPU film with extra holes to lighten things up, so sourcing that would be a nightmare. 

If anyone wants a business, creating pre-cut material packs for this kind of stuff then selling them to DIY at home wouldn't have any patent or legal issues. 

Instagram post from Jan 31st hints at delivery in March

Paying a brother-of-the-rope professional a competitive price for an outstanding product trumps the cost of time invested in a mission that fails from the inadequacies of home-made gear.  

Bonatti's example is a good one to follow, on the contrary. Sustain, suffer, succeed. 

Suffering the weight of a one pound pump seems too much for some, though :/

Walls cost a lot.  Invest your recources wisely. 

Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance (:    Fuck that up? Perservere!

But muh patent!  Its all i have! The gubment told me I was going to get rich off your back, I thought this was amurica

Almostrad - paddling with haul bag works well. See video here:  youtu.be/Ltfp3Y30qhY?si=xV4…

Daniel S. - the new rainfly design is 84 inches long so it has room for head and feet without touching the fly.

Erik Harz - I’ll check that out, thanks!

Flava Flav - I tried the roll bag and sitting on it, but it still couldn’t get the pressure high enough, maybe there is a way but seems like a bigger engineering project. By the way, the pump works after being in the freezer all night.

Rprops and Climbing Weasel - yep, but you need at least >80 grams of C02 to pressurize a Multiledge, so how many tanks would you wanna bring with you?

Glowering - the ledges connect together at the D-rings with a carabiner keeping them solidly connected.

Grayson G - soon! Its looking like end of March or early April now.

Wake and Bake - the G7 pod is an amazing product, kudos to Nathan for bringing the pod to life. Freebird R&D Mountain Equipment respects the IP of climbing companies, and would not design a product that infringes a valid patent. We want to see G7 succeed and get the pods back on the market because they are a great tool to have in the wallosphere toolbox.

Since drop stitch is unbaffled and since there is no discrete suspension web on the Multiledge, it doesn’t fall under the scope of the G7 patent. Not to mention that the Multiledge is a unique design with separate technology (its a drop stitch sup with straps, not a baffled thermarest with straps). If you are curious, have a look at the patents for single point suspended inflatable platforms that came before the G7 pod (Shulze WO 2018/132021, Yandle US 2010/0299837, Haro 1994 US 5,283,916) and possibly others.

This figure is from the 2018 Shulze patent, and shows that inflatable portaledges are not a new concept. Who is stepping on who's toes depends on who’s toes are most sensitive and how one interprets the ownership of ideas.

You will see that there are only small differences in technology between these patents. The Multiledge is now patent pending, and supporting our company is supporting innovation, not duplication. The other comments by folks indicate that people see the Multiledge as an innovation and not duplication (thanks everybody!)

Developing this product for you all has been a full time job. If it was a duplication of anything it wouldn’t need all the testing I’ve done. I look forward to bringing more innovations your way, and I hope to do so with other companies that also want to in innovate and collaborate (Skot’s Wall Gear and High Mountain Gear, to name a few so far). 

Climb on and keep innovating!

Nick

Freebird R&D Mountain Equipment

Excellent comments Nick

As noted upthread I have no skin in the ledge game and did a cursory search on the USTPO based on info i scraped from the G7 website-may the best ledge win!