New Inflatable Portaledge Technology

@Nick, how necessary is the pump that comes with the ledge? Can I get away with something lighter like a bag pump, or would that take forever? 

Grayson Gwrote:

@Nick, how necessary is the pump that comes with the ledge? Can I get away with something lighter like a bag pump, or would that take forever? 

It couldn't work in any possible way. Pump is 100% needed. 

Kevin DeWeese: Yes, exactly, water approach! 

Almostrad: The Multiledge does not work well to stand up on because it is a smaller profile than SUPs. But if you use it like you are paddling out on a surfboard, it works well. If you have a really big and heavy haulbag, it might make balance harder but you could strap it to the deck. I can confirm that it works well with a smaller bag, but have yet to try it with a >100 lb haul bag.

I'll look into making a video simulating a water approach with all the gear one would have for a route like those on Atlantis Wall.

Grayson G: Yes, that guy named seb is correct. The Multiledge works by having a high internal pressure. It needs to be >6 psig, which is not possible with an inflation bag.

We have tested almost every type of pump. Here is why we didn’t choose other pump options:

• Low volume + high pressure bike and car tire pumps do not inflate fast enough

• High volume + low pressure pumps cannot achieve enough pressure

• Stand up paddleboard pumps are too bulky and heavy

• Accordion foot pumps do not achieve enough pressure

• Battery powered SUP pumps are an attractive option but are heavier and battery life is a failure mode we would rather avoid.

• Inflation bags do not achieve enough pressure

I'm open to suggestions if anybody has a lighter solution than a 1 pound K-pump.

Can the K-pump double as a P-pump??
asking for a friend….  

Skot, it can double as whatever your friend wants it to   

On a serious note, I want to find a way to make it double as a water filtration pump. 

K-pumps are common in the rafting world. Another point in their favor is that they're bombproof and simple.

Skot Richardswrote:

Can the K-pump double as a P-pump??
asking for a friend….  

I think you need a vacuum, which would be nice to deflate the pad!

Three things interest me about the ML:

1. It did seem like the ML needed an unusually high amount of force to get the pump to create pressure for a nearly flat ledge to stand on. My guess is the pressure required is related to the weight of the user.   Let me see the ledge after an ~110lb female crusher pumps the pad up and stand on it.

2. Is the pump made from materials susceptible to low temperature? (I’m guessing 0F would assuage any concerns)

3. Removed this question because it was irrelevant.

How well would the ML work for someone who is 6 feet tall? (I recall seeing on another forum post that being taller would be difficult on a G7)
If there is enough room for someone 6 foot tall to lay down, would their head/feet hit the fly? (my past experience with tents is that touching the walls is a great way to get wet)

Flava Flav: It does take somewhat forceful pushes near the end once the pressure is high, but to your point, if someone weighs less, they won't need as much psig. Anyone curious can see the attached figure from my testing. Its really not as hard as it seems, but I haven't done systematic human factors testing. If you can haul, you can also put your body weight into the pump.

The pump is made from PVC which is resilient to temperature extremes. The grease that lubes the o-ring within the pump works in freezing temps and extremely hot temps. I will put a pump in my freezer now and do a quick experiment!

Daniel S: Yea, for 6'0'' your head/feet might barely touch the rainfly, if at all. I slept in the ML in side-by-side orientation on Friday with the rainfly deployed. I am 6'2'' and my feet and head gently touch the rainfly when I lay on my back, but that is only when it is cinched down tightly. Side sleepers don't need to worry though even if you are 6'8''. 6'4'' is the limit if you are a back sleeper. Since 98% of men in the US are 6'4'' or below, and almost 100% of US women are below 6'4'', the chosen ML length (76") is balanced to accommodate roughly 99% of people, without being heavier from unnecessary length. Anyone who wants drastically different ML lengths should contact me and I'll keep track of those requests for a possible future batch. The double wide ML I designed to be 82 inches long and should still fit inside the Rainfly.

The size of person does change the center of gravity on both the pod and the ML and that is another reason having adjustable suspension kits is critical, so you can make sure your head is slightly elevated compared to your feet. The center of gravity can also be adjusted on the ML by changing the center strap location.

I know how to read this chart, but I still see “90 pounds” in the bottom right.

Carl’s Jr does not use charts to sell cheeseburgers. 

The Alpacka Raft  "Pack a Pump" might be an inflatable pump to consider now that Sockdolager Equipment sells an adapter to fit the pump to Leafield D7 and Boston valves.  The pump is similar to the K-pump mini, but lighter (7oz) and smaller capacity.

https://alpackaraft.com/products/pack-a-pump?srsltid=AfmBOoqS0BVWqNZ3UbTTZecWCiSB6ZNkllpVZeUCNNsUfzUjNHXEx6yF

If youre climbing a wall, even an alpine wall, is a 1lb pump that big of a concern? 

Very cool!

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Yes, both in weight and in the volume that it takes up in the bag

I second this. The less something weighs, the more inconveniences alpinists are willing to accept.

I would wager that if there was some method of compounding air pressure inside a fabric sack without it exploding, people would use that over the pump 99/100 times. The pad itself doesn’t need a high pressure pump until the end.  People weigh 120-200 lbs. just figure out how to get people to roll top closed a 30L stuff sack and sit on the thing to get to final pressure. Ultragrid-Untearable!

Even more ridiculous, build the stuff sack into a UL belay seat. Then they can sit on it and not the ledge, and use it as a belay seat. 

Rpropswrote:

https://amp.tuxingcn.com/Carbon-Fiber-Cylinder-c132886/

I looked at the website and didn't see an answer to this; do two of them connect together in the middle to form a double ledge? I see them side my side but no details of how they would connect together to form a big stable platform.

Any updates on time line? I am thinking of doing a route in Early April that this would be nice for

Gloweringwrote:

I looked at the website and didn't see an answer to this; do two of them connect together in the middle to form a double ledge? I see them side my side but no details of how they would connect together to form a big stable platform.

You could tie/clip the connection points together, they are D rings. 

I love innovation and i am no lawyer.

First of all kudos for using a SUP 

 I could not help thinking "gee i wonder of the dude is stepping on G7's toes for IP

so i took a look and searched these patents which i found on the G7 website

Sure looks to me as if that's the case 

Since the MP community are all about respect -that includes respect for original work 

Can the folks behind this project inform the community if they are paying G7 a royalty or if they have filed a patent application detailing what makes their product unique? 

I'm not here to be judge but i am sure that as climbers, we want to support those that innovate rather than duplicate 

• Registered U.S. Patent No. 11185149
• Granted European Patent No. 3921047
• Approved Taiwan Patent No. 109103560