New Inflatable Portaledge Technology

I can't speak for the singles - never owned one and I don't solo - but IMO a well made double that comes in around 10 lbs with a bomber fly is going to be more valuable in the marketplace.  My observation is that doubles far outnumber singles out there on the walls.  On longer routes, many including myself still bring 2 doubles as the additional weight over 2 singles is relatively small and the added comfort is huge.

I purchased 2 of the G7 Pods awhile back and it took me all of about 10 minutes at the base of the local crag to realize they were virtually unusable as a double compared to my A5 double.  I ended up selling them a few months later - unused.  

My observation since they came out is these get purchased and used "one and done" by noobs and big wall theorists to use on trade routes where there are large ledges nearby to actually have a place to spread out on.  If they move on to steeper routes, those same people seem to end up in Al frame double ledges as they gain experience.  If you have experience with hanging camps where there are no ledges nearby, the reasons will become immediately obvious.  

Note Jacob and Bronwyn - supposed G7 athletes and former Pod models - made the switch.  Even for their epic "Sea to Summit" trip where everything had to fit in small boats and multi-day overland carries were involved - they carried the heavier and bulkier Al frame ledges.

When you're committed to a completely hanging bivy, a double portaledge becomes a very important place eat, recover, find shade and weather storms.  Having some 2-piece that shifts in the middle and has straps everywhere is a no-go.  You need to be able to have 2 people sitting in their own sleeping spots and able to sit without their head going through the fly.  You have to be able to shift your weight around without dumping your camp as you reach around and move things or one person has to take a crap or climb down to get things out of a haul bag.  I could go on.  The old A5/North Face double is just under 15 lbs with the basic fly and hasn't been replaced yet in the market place (11lb ledge+haulbag, 4lb fly).  If I lost my ledge, I'd have zero reservations going straight to a 30lb (w/fly and haulbag) BD Perch - it's your most important piece of equipment by far and your life could depend on it.

TLDR - seems to me this same "SUP" concept as a double with pretty much a copy of the A5/NF/BD middle fins and suspension - could possibly be a replacement - if weight and bulk were lower than the A5 double - with a factory seam sealed fly.  The ledges from the 90's are still working fine and getting a lot of use - but the flies all seem to be leaking.

2c suggestion for your next product.

I agree nate, the utility of a lightweight 2 person ledge is huge, and especially benefits solo climbers. My design solves this problem, the issue is my design is labour intensive and expensive so you would never take it commercial. 

Just preordered, siked to test it out. Also reassuring to see some seasoned vets did too. 

It’s rad to see this project come to the market.  Nick chose to use my portaledge suspension kit for the ledge.  

All these comments are hitting home. I will be getting to work on a double. Assuming we can recoup the development costs of the single, I think having a double by next year is doable.

We already tested a double prototype made from pvc: https://www.instagram.com/freebird_rd_mountain_equipment/reel/C9DQ0JKuMha/ . Would just need to hone in on lighter and tougher materials and get a few more prototypes made.

Looking forward to hearing any and all feedback on the ledges this spring too.

NateB wrote:

I can't speak for the singles - never owned one and I don't solo - but IMO a well made double that comes in around 10 lbs with a bomber fly is going to be more valuable in the marketplace.  My observation is that doubles far outnumber singles out there on the walls.  On longer routes, many including myself still bring 2 doubles as the additional weight over 2 singles is relatively small and the added comfort is huge.

I purchased 2 of the G7 Pods awhile back and it took me all of about 10 minutes at the base of the local crag to realize they were virtually unusable as a double compared to my A5 double.  I ended up selling them a few months later - unused.  

My observation since they came out is these get purchased and used "one and done" by noobs and big wall theorists to use on trade routes where there are large ledges nearby to actually have a place to spread out on.  If they move on to steeper routes, those same people seem to end up in Al frame double ledges as they gain experience.  If you have experience with hanging camps where there are no ledges nearby, the reasons will become immediately obvious.  

Note Jacob and Bronwyn - supposed G7 athletes and former Pod models - made the switch.  Even for their epic "Sea to Summit" trip where everything had to fit in small boats and multi-day overland carries were involved - they carried the heavier and bulkier Al frame ledges.

When you're committed to a completely hanging bivy, a double portaledge becomes a very important place eat, recover, find shade and weather storms.  Having some 2-piece that shifts in the middle and has straps everywhere is a no-go.  You need to be able to have 2 people sitting in their own sleeping spots and able to sit without their head going through the fly.  You have to be able to shift your weight around without dumping your camp as you reach around and move things or one person has to take a crap or climb down to get things out of a haul bag.  I could go on.  The old A5/North Face double is just under 15 lbs with the basic fly and hasn't been replaced yet in the market place (11lb ledge+haulbag, 4lb fly).  If I lost my ledge, I'd have zero reservations going straight to a 30lb (w/fly and haulbag) BD Perch - it's your most important piece of equipment by far and your life could depend on it.

TLDR - seems to me this same "SUP" concept as a double with pretty much a copy of the A5/NF/BD middle fins and suspension - could possibly be a replacement - if weight and bulk were lower than the A5 double - with a factory seam sealed fly.  The ledges from the 90's are still working fine and getting a lot of use - but the flies all seem to be leaking.

2c suggestion for your next product.

That all makes sense. But maybe it doesn't have to be one or the other with a ledge this light? You have one light double with a bomber fly for the team of two or three. Flag that and use it as the mothership/storm bunker. Have a SUP-ledge or two sans fly for comfortable sleeping. 

The reason I was a relatively easy sell on this is that I whitewater raft a fair bit, and the drop-stitch seems way superior to the G7 POD construction, which seems more packraft-ish. Whitewater rafts and paddleboards are freaking sturdy. Packrafts are awesome, but low-pressure and much less sturdy. 

On their website they have pics of flagging this SUP-ledge on the Leaning Tower. My guess is that you could probably flag this on all but the slabbiest route. This sorta material tends to slide well. Maybe better than a framed ledge? [BTW..What is an AI ledge? Something stealing our jobs?] 

About frames. Don't you think frames are sorta painful in a lot of ways? This almost looks like it increases livable space for the same square-footage, as you tend to lose inches of living space around the frame. And no frame packs particularly well, no matter the model.

One thing that is curious is the offset suspension and the free-floating middle strap. That could be mega-genius or could have some unseen complications. 

I am likely honeymoon-ish about the SUP-ledge, but I can sure see the potential. 

My 2 yen...

Cheers! 

I'll chime in about the offset D-rings and center strap. The offset D-rings are an intentional design feature to provide more support and prevent bending when standing in between the strap locations (compared to 4 equally spaced 'corner' D-rings). The center strap is left to be movable so that when its time to sleep, you move the center strap below where your lower back is positioned on the ledge and then release air, titrated to comfort. It also saves the weight of additional D-rings. The only complication I have had is if your straps get tangled, then it can be annoying to figure out, but its not unlike tangles with other portaledges. To avoid this, cinch the straps down close to the ledge every time you pack it up. There will be instructions in the manual that comes with the ledge.

And yea, the SUP material is freaking sturdy! I think the Multiledge will last a lifetime for most big wallers (not the usual business tactic seen in the current age of everything being disposable).

If anyone wants to sell a G7....

Nick Powell wrote:

All these comments are hitting home. I will be getting to work on a double. Assuming we can recoup the development costs of the single, I think having a double by next year is doable.

We already tested a double prototype made from pvc: https://www.instagram.com/freebird_rd_mountain_equipment/reel/C9DQ0JKuMha/ . Would just need to hone in on lighter and tougher materials and get a few more prototypes made.

Looking forward to hearing any and all feedback on the ledges this spring too.

After what I imagine will be a very positive rollout of the single ledge, here's hoping you can get a double out soon! 

I'm broke as shit and if you make a double I will save my sheckels and find a way to buy it. I would be stoked as fuck on that with a fly. 

John Shultz wrote:

On their website they have pics of flagging this SUP-ledge on the Leaning Tower. My guess is that you could probably flag this on all but the slabbiest route. This sorta material tends to slide well. Maybe better than a framed ledge? [BTW..What is an AI ledge? Something stealing our jobs?] 

I hovered on that for a moment myself. I then realized that he wrote “Al framed ledge”—that’s capital A lower case L, short for aluminum.

Following.  These seem awesome. 

If you develop an inflatable double ledge, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Probably saving my pennies until that happens. Keep up the great work!

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

TBH the consistent quality of Skot's work is the only reason I decided I was cool with testing the higher weight of this system over my G7 and Supertaco. 

G7 Pod is probably good for more than you’d feel comfortable putting on there. BITD when I made your Supertaco I didn’t even own a bartacker, but I would wager that those 3 point zig zags hold up and the webbing breaks first. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

I'm not worried about the quality of the G7 straps in terms of them holding up over time, when I say quality, I mean usability in the design itself. The G7 straps feel like they were designed by a small skinny alien that had never slept on a bigwall and only saw pictures of people setting up a hang on a sheer vertical wall. Skot's designs come with additional weight in exchange for actual usability in the myriad of situations one will.find themselves in on the wall. 

If anything, I'm thinking that this ledge will be good for lightweight missions on bigwalls more than the G7 is, just as your super taco and taco are better than the G7 for  lightweight missions with natural ledges to function on until sleepy time 

Oh I see what you mean. I have been admiring how many designs and engineering that took place 40-100 years ago are still relevant today. Fish/A5 designs with 400D packcloth/Cordura, the Browning M2, the Schrader Valve. 

High Mountain Gear wrote:

Oh I see what you mean. I have been admiring how many designs and engineering that took place 40-100 years ago are still relevant today. Fish/A5 designs with 400D packcloth/Cordura, the Browning M2, the Schrader Valve. 

Drop stitch technology is in that list. Goodyear developed it for inflatable airplane wings in the 1950s. 

https://www.ecodeporte.es/doc/ensayo-drop-stitch.pdf 

Great to see innovation in climbing gear, as usual led by specialist small manufacturers, John Middendorf would thoroughly approve. Thanks for the paper on drop-stitch, very interesting and all new to me. I hope the manufacturing and business side works out for you. Outsourcing fly and straps to experienced manufactures sounds like a good move. 

For a classic wall with some natural ledges taking two or three nights - like The Nose - one or two inflatable singles per team could be a good plan. I imagine many people looking for a portaledge have routes like this in mind. Perhaps this also applies to some super-alpine routes but I’m a complete theoretician here. Echoing others, for 4+ night routes I preferred a double. Increasingly this will be for hard free ascents rather than vertical camping trips. The benefits of having somewhere to recover properly between redpoint goes and on rest days compensates for the extra weight. Non-BD athletes should be very interested.

How compatible is the multiledge with G7 pod?

Side by side orientation?

Top/bottom orientation?

thanks

It is compatible. I haven’t personally tested it on a big wall, but it works well in more sterile test environments. I posted videos on our instagram page. @freebird_rd_mountain_equipment

Nick, I've preordered one. Very excited! Thanks for sharing your work with the community. Commercializing a product like this for a niche market is so much work. Good luck! I'll update here when I get mine